[quote]your definition of ‘performed poorly’ needs some work.  Just because Kill Bill didn’t make 150 million doesn’t mean it performed poorly.  Kill Bill was made for a target audience.  This audience is not the 14 - 18 year target group that movies like ‘Pirates of the Carribbian’ and ‘Bad Boys’ is aimed at. ÂÂ
Also, let’s not forget that Vol. 1 didn’t get promoted much prior to its release, either.  In fact, I saw far more previews for it AFTER it was released than before. ÂÂ
I wouldn’t be surprised if next week we get a good trailer for Vol. 2 and then we start seeing TV advertisements after the 10th. ÂÂ
Also, I predicted that Kill Bill Vol. 1 would open at around 25 Million, but that it would get great reviews.  Both these were true. ÂÂ
I now make two more predictions.
Actually… they’re the same.  Vol. 2 will open for no more than 30 mil, and will get reviews that are just as positive.
I’ve never argued with you, Matrixfan, before, and I don’t intend to start now.  I’m just not sure whether your intentions at this site are malevolent or strictly a ‘devil’s advocate’ sort of thing.[/quote]
My motives are not to play devils advocate, i just add a much needed dose or realism.
For example when i say kill bill performed poorly it means that it did poorly according to the studio's expectations and it did poorly when contrasted to all the premature hype it got along with biased positive reviews (all movies from last year that gotsimilar hype were block busters unlike kill bill) and lastly it was a big dissappointment to the majority of QT fans thats why it had no staying power in the theatres and was removed after a few weeks.
Also if you are objective enough you can not help but realize the fact pretty much no one in the general public cares about the late realease of VOL 2 (much less give a damn about it)
I believe you were among the people who similarly predicted that kill bill would win this and that oscar awards while i was saying it would not even get nominated (i wonder how right i was on that) not to mention most of the movies i picked over kill bill either got a nomination or won and oscar out right.
But that has not prevented you from making myopic predictions about a movie that will NOT MAKE any where near 30 million on its opening weekend!!!!! I guarantee that.
Ps..I wonder why the Weinsteins are not behind Kill bill like they were the first part? may be its because they cut their losses and are not willing to push it like they did the first part
because they (hate them or like them ) tend to have good instinct about American movies made for american audiences...
(Dont friggin bring up Hero or Shaolin soccer to me because those are not AMERICAN MADE for AMERICAN audiences)
My motives are not to play devils advocate, i just add a much needed dose or realism.
For example when i say kill bill performed poorly it means that it did poorly according to the studio’s expectations and it did poorly when contrasted to all the premature hype it got along with biased positive reviews (all movies from last year that gotsimilar hype were block busters unlike kill bill) and lastly it was a big dissappointment to the majority of QT fans thats why it had no staying power in the theatres and was removed after a few weeks.
Also if you are objective enough you can not help but realize the fact pretty much no one in the general public cares about the late realease of VOL 2 (much less give a damn about it)
I believe you were among the people who similarly predicted that kill bill would win this and that oscar awards while i was saying it would not even get nominated (i wonder how right i was on that) not to mention most of the movies i picked over kill bill either got a nomination or won and oscar out right.
But that has not prevented you from making myopic predictions about a movie that will NOT MAKE any where near 30 million on its opening weekend!!! I guarantee that.
Ps…I wonder why the Weinsteins are not behind Kill bill like they were the first part? may be its because they cut their losses and are not willing to push it like they did the first part
because they (hate them or like them ) tend to have good instinct about American movies made for american audiences…
(Dont friggin bring up Hero or Shaolin soccer to me because those are not AMERICAN MADE for AMERICAN audiences)[/quote]
I do see your point, although I’d hardly say that Kill Bill disappointed Tarantino fans. The biggest disappointment that QT fans (At least generally from my knowledge) have endured was Jackie Brown, and that’s a stretch of the word disappointment.
I hate the Weinsteins, not because they’re screwing Tarantino per se, but because they’re so weasely that they’d screw a man who has done nothing but great things for their company just because, financially speaking, he failed to put out once. See my point?
My motives are not to play devils advocate, i just add a much needed dose or realism.
For example when i say kill bill performed poorly it means that it did poorly according to the studio’s expectations and it did poorly when contrasted to all the premature hype it got along with biased positive reviews (all movies from last year that gotsimilar hype were block busters unlike kill bill) and lastly it was a big dissappointment to the majority of QT fans thats why it had no staying power in the theatres and was removed after a few weeks.
Also if you are objective enough you can not help but realize the fact pretty much no one in the general public cares about the late realease of VOL 2 (much less give a damn about it)
I believe you were among the people who similarly predicted that kill bill would win this and that oscar awards while i was saying it would not even get nominated (i wonder how right i was on that) not to mention most of the movies i picked over kill bill either got a nomination or won and oscar out right.
But that has not prevented you from making myopic predictions about a movie that will NOT MAKE any where near 30 million on its opening weekend!!! I guarantee that.
Ps…I wonder why the Weinsteins are not behind Kill bill like they were the first part? may be its because they cut their losses and are not willing to push it like they did the first part
because they (hate them or like them ) tend to have good instinct about American movies made for american audiences…
(Dont friggin bring up Hero or Shaolin soccer to me because those are not AMERICAN MADE for AMERICAN audiences) [/quote]
Dude, you’re not intelligent or perseptive in the slightest. You can’t even start a good arguement (please refer to the thread months ago where you tried to convince us that box-office numbers reflect the films quality, to which you were rightfully shut down). You may think you’re sounding smart, but don’t let the voices in your head decieve you, you’re only making an ass of yourself.
You are taking subjective opinions and trying to state them as fact.
“QT fans were dissapointed”? We’re QT fans. The people who voted Kill Bill up to #91 on the top 250 list on imdb were most likely QT fans (QT haters usually vote lower, you see). But I’m sure you’re the expert on knowing when films dissapoint loyal fans, eh MATRIXfan?
"when i say kill bill performed poorly it means that it did poorly according to the studio’s expectations and it did poorly when contrasted to all the premature hype it got along with biased positive reviews"
biased positive reviews? Studio expectations? How do you know what the studio was expecting, and what opinion all the reviewers were holding in their head? Again, stating subjective opinion as fact. Oh wait, I forgot, the gory samurai kung-fu flicks have always been critical fodder. I mean, next to foreign arthouse new wave flicks, the gory samurai kung-fu movie is the ultimate critical sign of pretention. Retard.
Listen, you’re obviously, what, 14? You dont present anything critical or argueable. You don’t foster intelligent conversations, and you do not have anything at all to contribute besides blind Kill Bill bashing. Noone will shed a tear if you leave, or slit a wrist, so either pick up a razor blade, or log off of the fucking board.
Dude, you’re not intelligent or perseptive in the slightest.  You can’t even start a good arguement (please refer to the thread months ago where you tried to convince us that box-office numbers reflect the films quality, to which you were rightfully shut down).  You may think you’re sounding smart, but don’t let the voices in your head decieve you, you’re only making an ass of yourself.
You are taking subjective opinions and trying to state them as fact. ÂÂ
“QT fans were dissapointed”?  We’re QT fans.  The people who voted Kill Bill up to #91 on the top 250 list on imdb were most likely QT fans (QT haters usually vote lower, you see).  But I’m sure you’re the expert on knowing when films dissapoint loyal fans, eh MATRIXfan?
"when i say kill bill performed poorly it means that it did poorly according to the studio’s expectations and it did poorly when contrasted to all the premature hype it got along with biased positive reviews"
biased positive reviews?  Studio expectations?  How do you know what the studio was expecting, and what opinion all the reviewers were holding in their head?  Again, stating subjective opinion as fact.  Oh wait, I forgot, the gory samurai kung-fu flicks have always been critical fodder.  I mean, next to foreign arthouse new wave flicks, the gory samurai kung-fu movie is the ultimate critical sign of pretention.  Retard.
Listen, you’re obviously, what, 14?  You dont present anything critical or argueable.  You don’t foster intelligent conversations, and you do not have anything at all to contribute besides blind Kill Bill bashing.  Noone will shed a tear if you leave, or slit a wrist, so either pick up a razor blade, or log off of the fucking board.
[/quote]
Never thought I’d say this, but get off Matrixfan’s back Joebananarama.
Y’all want to slam on the Matrixfan just because he said some stupid shit a while back. He did, and I’ll admit it. But I’m willing to let it go and try to talk with the guy. I mean, his points, at least a few of them, were quite legitimate, and you look like an asshead when you just shut him down like that.
Never thought I’d say this, but get off Matrixfan’s back Joebananarama.
Y’all want to slam on the Matrixfan just because he said some stupid shit a while back.  He did, and I’ll admit it.  But I’m willing to let it go and try to talk with the guy.  I mean, his points, at least a few of them, were quite legitimate, and you look like an asshead when you just shut him down like that.[/quote]
Tell me what points of his you agree with and I can just as fast shut you down.
My motives are not to play devils advocate, i just add a much needed dose or realism.
For example when i say kill bill performed poorly it means that it did poorly according to the studio’s expectations and it did poorly when contrasted to all the premature hype it got along with biased positive reviews (all movies from last year that gotsimilar hype were block busters unlike kill bill)…Also if you are objective enough you can not help but realize the fact pretty much no one in the general public cares about the late realease of VOL 2 (much less give a damn about it)…I believe you were among the people who similarly predicted that kill bill would win this and that oscar awards while i was saying it would not even get nominated (i wonder how right i was on that) not to mention most of the movies i picked over kill bill either got a nomination or won and oscar out right.
Ps…I wonder why the Weinsteins are not behind Kill bill like they were the first part? may be its because they cut their losses and are not willing to push it like they did the first part
because they (hate them or like them ) tend to have good instinct about American movies made for american audiences…
[/quote]
1st: For a whole year before its release, Kill Bill was probably the most talked about film aside from LOTR and maybe Star Wars. Judging from box office #s, it didn’t live up to all of that.
2nd: Nobody outside of the QT fanbase and movie geeks really cares. It’s sad, but it’s true. Sorry.
3rd: The Oscars people here said Kill Bill would get were ridiculous. Sorry, but we both know they were.
4th: From a strictly business POV, the Weinsteins are making the smartest move regarding Kill Bill Vol. 2. Were QT not QT they might not even release it.
1st: For a whole year before its release, Kill Bill was probably the most talked about film aside from LOTR and maybe Star Wars.  Judging from box office #s, it didn’t live up to all of that.
2nd: Nobody outside of the QT fanbase and movie geeks really cares.  It’s sad, but it’s true.  Sorry.
3rd: The Oscars people here said Kill Bill would get were ridiculous.  Sorry, but we both know they were.
4th: From a strictly business POV, the Weinsteins are making the smartest move regarding Kill Bill Vol. 2.  Were QT not QT they might not even release it.
There you go.
[/quote]
1: Outside of the QT community there was never that much hype about the film.  Audiences boo’d the trailers when they first came out, calling it a Charlie’s Angels knockoff.  Very few people even knew of it’s existence up until then too, which was like a month or two before release. ÂÂ
Also, there are many factors preventing it from reaching a large audience.  Most obvious is the content, but also the R rating and lack of major stars. ÂÂ
I’d like to know what you’d usually expect a gory R rated kung-fu samurai movie to make. ÂÂ
2.  Would like proof please, because when Volume 1 was released Miramax tested audiences and 90% of people claimed they would come back for Volume 2.  Also, all my buddies(not QT fans) cant wait for it (which may be bias since we rock).
3.  uh-oh, you mean people actually hoped that their favorite movie of the year would be recognized?!?!?  For shame on them.  Personally i was holding out for a Best Sound Editing award, does that make Kill Bill less a movie (which is what Matrixfan is arguing)?
4.  69 mill is a lot of money Box-office wise, not to mention the foreign bank he got (an extra $107,150,000), along with DVD sales and merchandising (which can sometimes earn more money than theatre earnings).  Volume 1 has more than paid for the entire movie itself.  Now Volume 2 comes along, standing to make PURE PROFITS, and you think they wouldnt release it? ÂÂ
1. Not true. Every site I hit from August to December had Kill Bill on it. Granted, it wasn’t AS big, but it was still big.
2. Having been part of a test audience, I know that people in that situation tend to say the best things to please their testers because courtesy sort of requires it. Also, your friends have you, a QT fan, promoting Kill Bill to them. Not every one has that.
3. I heard people saying QT for best director, Kill Bill for best picture, Uma for best actress, etc. THAT’s what I was refering to.
4. Maybe saying they wouldn’t release it is a bit harsh, but the point is, how much of a profit do they really stand to make? Volume 2 will do worse than Volume 1, so you gotta weigh that in.
Who says that Volume 2 will do worse than Volume 1? Maybe due to the lack of advertisements and general knowledge of the second half, but those who follow Tarantino and are fans of Kill Bill will definetly be seeing this movie. Not that the fans didn’t flock to go see Volume 1, but there has been a cult-like following of the movie that will probably force a lot more people to go see it. And the only reason that the Weinsteins aren’t releasing that much advertisements is because Volume 1 surpassed the profit mark already and the money made on Volume 2 will just be extra cash. So there is no need to market this film if money can’t be lost.
[quote]1. Not true.  Every site I hit from August to December had Kill Bill on it.  Granted, it wasn’t AS big, but it was still big.
2. Having been part of a test audience, I know that people in that situation tend to say the best things to please their testers because courtesy sort of requires it.  Also, your friends have you, a QT fan, promoting Kill Bill to them.  Not every one has that.
3. I heard people saying QT for best director, Kill Bill for best picture, Uma for best actress, etc.  THAT’s what I was refering to.
4. Maybe saying they wouldn’t release it is a bit harsh, but the point is, how much of a profit do they really stand to make?  Volume 2 will do worse than Volume 1, so you gotta weigh that in.[/quote]
Every site I hit has Jersey Girl on it, as well as I, Robot and Scooby-Doo, doesnt mean they’re crazy hyped. Also read again what I said about box-office factors. As hyped as a movie is, there’s always limitations to affect the outcome.
I’m still waiting for proof that noone besides QT fans are anticipating this movie.
I know, and whats wrong with that? Sure, I know it would never get nominated for some of those, but how does wishful thinking affect the quality of the movie? Matrixfan brought it up simply to add to his anti-Kill Bill argument. If he added “Puppies have big round eyes” to his argument would you jump on his side too?
A freakin “movies” worth of profit, dummy. Kill Bill Volume 1 was Miramax’s second highest box-office intake last year. So do you think Harvey could pinch his pennies and give it another go?
i am really not in the mood to read any more of his bullshit. if one of my moderators reads this, please delete all bullshit that matrixfan is posting. i am getting annoyed with that shit
[quote]i am really not in the mood to read any more of his bullshit. if one of my moderators reads this, please delete all bullshit that matrixfan is posting. i am getting annoyed with that shit[/quote]
I just ICQed MrBill to do what is necessary....
means deleting the shit.
So MrBill just do it! ;D ;D ;D
[quote]i am really not in the mood to read any more of his bullshit. if one of my moderators reads this, please delete all bullshit that matrixfan is posting. i am getting annoyed with that shit[/quote]
Well, if you took all the members' valid suggestions and just ban him once and for all, you wouldn't have to deal with his shit anymore and save a lot of trouble for your mods. I don't know why you decided to leave him here and post his bullshit, then take all the trouble and delete all his posts altogether. It doesn't make any fucking sense. He's been breaking your fucking rules since the first time he posted his shit and you still don't do shit about it.
Edit: I apologise to Mr. Bill for this off-topic post, but this just had to be said.
I might as well offer my meaningless thoughts on this issue. I personally enjoyed Kill Bill Vol.1 and will most likely enjoy Vol.2. Before Kill Bill Vol.1 came out I knew that it wasn’t going to be a box office success like the Matrix, LOTR, or Star Wars Trilogies. The reason I believed that was because…
Films like LOTR, Star Wars and The Matrix (after a 4 year hiatus) had massive built in audiences so the chances for box office success were greater. Even The Passion Of The Christ had a massive built in audience. Kill Bill had no massive built in audience other than the weight of Tarantino fans a various Asian film geeks. ÂÂ
Films like LOTR, Star Wars, Matrix appeal to a wider audience. Kill Bill only appeals to a limited audience. Sure, there were some mainstreamers who enjoyed Kill Bill, but for the most part it was NEVER really made for a mainstream audience. I personally don’t care if Kill Bill didn’t do great numbers at the box office because most likely neither would “5 Deadly Venoms”, “Master Killer” or “8 Diagram Pole Figher”, if they were released on the big screen in the United States. There is just not a wide mainstream audience for those type of films in the United States. The geeks would see those films, but the mainstream audience wouldn’t give a fuck, resulting in low box office numbers. Does that mean those films are crap? No, it just means there’s a limited audience for those type of films and that’s the way I felt about Kill Bill before it was released.
Once word of mouth spread of the massive amound of blood in Kill Bill it would prevent more people from seeing it. The mainstream audience usually doesn’t like blood unless it’s connected to a important message, like “Braveheart”, “Saving Private Ryan”, “Platoon”, “The Passion Of The Christ”, etc… The blood in Kill Bill was mainly for the sake of style.
In closing, I didn’t think Kill Bill Vol.1 was a masterpeice by any means. The word Masterpeice is a dangerous word to throw around. If I was to say Kill Bill was a masterpeice than in my eyes that’s saying it’s on the same level as “36 Chamber Of Shaolin”, “Fist Of Legend”, etc… I can’t do that. Kill Bill is a good film, but I advise people not to get ahead of themselves with the masterpeice nonsense. PEACE!
