I was just wondering what you guys thought of the changes in the script. I’m glad he replaced the “Can she bake a Cherry Pie” chapter, or whatever it was called. And the way she left things with Elle is a lot cooler in the movie, I think. I actually prefer Bill’s death in the movie, however… I would have liked to have seen the way Tarantino would have directed the whole fight scene at the end. The only thing I remember reading in the script that I thought was just awesome that he took out was when she originally sees BB being picked up and Bill is on the phone with Bea and he trys to shoot her. I thought that was pretty cool. Anyway, what’re your guys’ thoughts? Yuki’s Revenge would have cool, but no love lost without it, in my opinion.
I thought the dialogue was rubbish most of the time.
"THE BRIDE (JAPANESE)
You sent me to L.A. to kill that
lady scoundrel, Lisa Wong.
Bill interrupts her.
BILL (ENGLISH)
You are you talking in Japanese?
The Bride explodes;
THE BRIDE (ENGLISH)
What the hell do you care what I
talk in? Don’t you know when to
keep your mouth shut? I’m trying to
tell you what you want to know, if
you’ll just shut up and listen and
stop talking! Now may I continue?
BILL
You’re right, I’m wrong, continue."
Like, what the fuck?
I’m glad about the changes.
Yeah, some of the dialogue was clumsy. However, that’s something that is usually fixed in later drafts… or even on shoot. Seems like it would be apparently bad if you heard it. I’d bet that’s when most of that kind of thing is fixed during readings. Especially if you’re working alone.
Yeah
But ive also got all of the actors already in my mind ofcourse.
I just cant imagine David or Uma saying that, but some other actors might have pulled it off, though I doubt it, I mean DC and UT were cast perfectly imo.
I don’t know if anyone shares the same opinion as my own but I thought the dialogue in Volume 2 was ermmm how should I put it… not Tarantino-like at all. After all the hype about how Volume 2 would be full of classic Tarantino dialogue, I was very disappointed to learn that was not the case. It was like somebody was ‘trying’ to write like Tarantino, and it just didn’t work at all. I mean the only good pieces of dialogue was during the Budd’s boss scene and the Pai Mei chapter. I was expecting Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown type dialogue and all I got was shitty mainstream like dialogue maybe even worse. It literally felt like it was written by a really bad Tarantino clone. I mean there was hardly any wit in the dialogue of which we are so used to hearing. Also, the scenes just dragged on for ages was the feeling I got when dialogue was involved. It was really slow and I kept waiting for a classic Tarantino line to be spoken that never occured. Volume 1 had much better dialogue than Volume 2 and that’s saying something. I mean how many quotable lines do you know from Volume 2 which was not also used in Volume 1 and were not part of the Budd’s Boss scene and the Pai Mei chapter??
The only ones I can think of are:
The Bride: You good with that shotgun?
Karen Kim: Not that it matters at this range but I’m a fuckin’ surgeon with this shotgun.
Esteban: Bill shot you in the head, no?
The Bride: Yes.
Esteban: I would’ve been much nicer. I would’ve just cut your face.
"Ain’t nobody a badass with a double dose of rock salt that deep in their tits."
That’s only 3! Now if I was to do the same with Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs or Jackie Brown I would have like 30+ per film.
Don’t get me wrong, I am NOT saying Kill Bill was a bad movie (It is now my most watched movie ever) and I just can’t get enough of it, but in the dialogue department, it just didn’t impress at all. I sincerely hope this was done purposefully on Tarantino’s part and I wish he resumes to old times with Inglorious Bastards or whatever the next project might be.
didnt tarantino say kill bill was the kind of movie the characters from pulp would go and watch? it supposed to be a movie-movie not just in the visuals, like the sword holsters on the plane seats, but dialogue aswell. what was cool bout pulp and reservoir dogs was that he took those kind of movie characters but made them real by having them talk about normal shit. but i think when u watch the two volumes back to back kill bill is tarantinos most emotionally affecting movie, so wise cracking dialogue wasnt necessary.
though ifys wrong coz practically everything pai mei says is quotable! the original script dialogue was trash though, the mr barrell bit was embarrasing, but i think its only coz weve seen how it is now - i avoided reading the script before hand coz didnt want to spoil it, but the vibe mightve been totally different
At first I thought, I expected the typical QT dialogue. I thought the dialogue wasnt really that good and I would have agreed with you.
But ive changed my opinion. The dialogue always seems to hit the spot (almost always at least). Like the dialogue between Bea and Bill at the chappel:
“You got a bun in the oven?”
“Music lover, hey?”
"He’s fond of music."
Bloody brilliant.
[quote]didnt tarantino say kill bill was the kind of movie the characters from pulp would go and watch? it supposed to be  a movie-movie not just in the visuals, like the sword holsters on the plane seats, but dialogue aswell. what was cool bout pulp and reservoir dogs was that he took those kind of movie characters but made them real by having them talk about normal shit. but i think when u watch the two volumes back to back kill bill is tarantinos most emotionally affecting movie, so wise cracking dialogue wasnt necessary.
though ifys wrong coz practically everything pai mei says is quotable! the original script dialogue was trash though, the mr barrell bit was embarrasing, but i think its only coz weve seen how it is now - i avoided reading the script before hand coz didnt want to spoil it, but the vibe mightve been totally different[/quote]
Did you not read what I wrote? I wrote
[quote]I mean the only good pieces of dialogue was during the Budd’s boss scene and the Pai Mei chapter.[/quote]
So I’m not wrong on that!
Not Tarantino like? What are you talking about? The way Tarantino dialogue is Tarantino’s, is not only the words he uses, but the way he delivers the lines. I think Vol 2 has very Tarantino-esque. The only difference is that these people are assassins and they’re trying to kill each other, while in Pulp and Jacky Brown they’re inthe real world, they’re in LA. True, there is no Jules or Ordell… that’s the only kind of character that Kill Bill doesn’t have… you know? Someone saying “nigga” every other word. Other than that… look at all the other characters and tell me Tarantino’s dialogue isn’t in Kill Bill 2.
It was good dialogue, but you told me it wasnt written by QT, i would have believed you.
Aaron, You totally mis-read what I wrote. I didn’t mean that I thought it wasn’t written by QT, I meant it was not what we are so used to hearing from him. There was no wit and cleverness in the dialogue. There were hardly any quotable lines. Hardly anything that was said amused me in the slightest except what Pai Mei said, Budd’s Boss said and a few other things other characters said. The dialogue was definately not the same callibre as in his other films. Compare the following and they are by no means bias:
Volume 2
Bill: Pai Mei taught you the five point palm-exploding heart technique?
The Bride : Of course he did.
Bill: Why didn’t you tell me?
The Bride : I don’t know… because I’m a bad person.
Bill: No. You’re not a bad person. You’re a terrific person. You’re my favorite person, but every once in a while, you can be a real cunt.
Budd: She’s got a Hanzo sword?
Bill: He made one for her.
Budd: Didn’t he swear a blood oath to never make another sword?
Bill: Superman stands alone. Superman did not become Superman, Superman was born Superman. When Superman wakes up in the morning, he is Superman. His alter ego is Clark Kent. His outfit with the big red S is the blanket he was wrapped in as a baby when the Kents found him. Those are his clothes. What Kent wears, the glasses the business suit, that’s the costume. That’s the costume Superman wears to blend in with us. Clark Kent is how Superman views us. And what are the characteristics of Clark Kent? He’s weak, unsure of himself… he’s a coward. Clark Kent is Superman’s critique on the whole human race, sort of like Beatrix Kiddo and Mrs. Tommy Plumpton.
Pulp Fiction
Jimmie : I can’t believe this is the same car.
The Wolf : Well, let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks just yet.
Jules: Describe what Marcellus Wallace looks like!
Brett: What, I-?
Jules: [pointing his gun] Say “what” again. SAY “WHAT” AGAIN. I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say “what” one more goddamn time.
Mia: Why do we feel it’s necessary to yak about bullshit in order to be comfortable?
Vincent : I don’t know. That’s a good question.
Mia: That’s when you know you’ve found somebody special. When you can just shut the fuck up for a minute and comfortably enjoy the silence.
Captain Koons: The way your dad looked at it, this watch was your birthright. He’d be damned if any of the slopes were gonna get their greasy yellow hands on his boy’s birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something: his ass. Five long years, he wore this watch up his ass. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the watch. I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you.
The Vol 2 dialogue doesn’t have that same ‘sas’ to it, it is pretty regular and borring, nothing like what you would expect from QT.
just bacuase it doesnt bring a smile to your face, doesnt mean its bad dialogue
My opinion.
I know you didn’t say that you didn’t think it was written by him. Obviously it was. But there is more to it than his words. Look at the situations in Kill Bill… a lot more emotional, a lot more fragile. Plus, the characters… I mean Jules and The Wolf are just 2 cool guys that are just smart asses as well… while Bill, still being cool, isn’t a smart ass, he’s just cool. Just look at how each character has his or her own personality, the way they talk, the words they use. No, there isn’t a Wolf or a Jules/Ordell (as Jules and Ordell are the same character… cos Samuel L. likes to be that character as much as humanly possible… fucking Shaft) But these are just different characters. Still great dialogue. It’s just not as realistic… at least it’s not like it’s set in our time, in our place. So dialogue is lessly based on real things, on fads, on our society. This is a whole different world. And how can you say that Esteban is not quotable? “If we would have met when I was back in business, you would have been MY number one lady” “tsk The Pussy Died… yah?” “I would have been much nicer; I would have just cut your face” “I must warn you, I am acceptable to flattery” dude, that guy’s great. The Sheriff too…“This tall drink o’ cock sucker ain’t dead” “If you was a moron you could almost admire it” I personally think those guys are more quotable that Pai Mei. What does Pai Mei say? “You bray like an ass” “Stand and let me see your ridiculous face” and “I told you to show me what you knew and you did… not a goddamn thing!” I like him, he is quotable, but Esteban and Earl McGraw rule. Hattori Hanzo, another quotable guy… however, I do admit he’s more quotable for how he says it. Except I do like “Funny… you like Samurai Swords. I Like Baseball.” The dialogue is a perfect love-child of Tarantino and classic, epic, Kung-fu dialogues.
Fave Pei Mei quote
"From here, you can get an excellent view of my foot!"
kick
Gotta love it
First of all I wasn’t talking about the dialogue in Vol 1, I think the dialogue in that is great! I was referring to the borring dialogue in Vol 2.
I think you are totally wrong in saying Bill is not a smart ass, heck even Beatrix calls him a smart ass in the film! I think Vol 2 has loads of ‘cool smart ass’ characters such as Beatrix, Budd, Elle, Bill, Budd’s Boss, Pai Mei and Esteban. The essence of QT’s characters is that he creates very cool, ‘smart ass’, larger than life characters. All of his films are based on these characters. No matter what the situation was, no matter what type of scene it was eg, romantic, violent, emotional, funny or a serious scene, Tarantino allways delivered us with very interesting lines of dialogue.
Yes I know Vol 2 is much more an emotional film and concentrates on things which are not based on our society but that doesn’t mean the dialogue can’t be interesting. Take Jackie Brown which was also an emotional film, was the dialogue in these emotional scenes borring? Was the dialogue in the romantic scenes in True Romance borring?
Obviously every character talks differently and has a different personality, that is a given in almost every film (written by good writers).
Vol 2 does have it’s (very few) moments in delivering to us interesting and quotable dialogue but the majority of these come from minor characters. The dialogue in his other 3 films and Vol 1 is so interesting I could listen to them talk sat around a table all day long. This has got nothing to do with me wanting more dialogue with swear words in or drug references in or anything else you may consider to be ‘cool’. It is about having characters say things which are interesting which the characters in Vol 2 lack in general. At a few times I thought the dialogue was pretty lame eg, the Karen Wong pregnancy test scene, the opening chapel scene, Bill talking to Beatrix scene. None of these dialogue pieces were interesting to listen to, they were relatively ‘normal’ and not very original.
What makes QT different to other writers is because of the dialogue he writes. It is just so damn interesting regardless of what is being discussed and that doesn’t show in the most parts of Volume 2. None of the cleverness, wit, humour, ‘awe’ factor is present in the dialogue in Vol 2 and we are left with ‘normal’ dialogue much like in any other film which is why I previously said that it does not seem Tarantino-like.
I hope I have got my point across!
imo, dialogue doesnt have to be interesting to be good (I know it sounds weird).
What some people fail to understand is that this movie wasn’t designed to be like Tarantino’s older movies, it was designed to transcend the genres that he loves to a new generation in a tight little package. The dialogue in grindhouse films and Spaghetti Westerns was not always great, hence the not as quotable lines in Kill Bill.
[quote]What some people fail to understand is that this movie wasn’t designed to be like Tarantino’s older movies, it was designed to transcend the genres that he loves to a new generation in a tight little package. The dialogue in grindhouse films and Spaghetti Westerns was not always great, hence the not as quotable lines in Kill Bill.[/quote]
Well The Good, The Bad And The Ugly and Once Upon A Time In The West are full of quotable dialogue!
Yeah they are but my point is that Kill Bill isn’t going to be like Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs dialogue-wise.
[quote]
…and so is kill bill.
"if on your journey, you should encounter god, god will be cut."
tell me that is not the coolest thing you’ve ever heard, and i’ll call you a liar.[/quote]
Dude, did you not read my post, I am talking about VOLUME 2 NOTVOLUME 1