im just gald im not the only one that was let down by the ending
[quote]Is it really his “5th” movie??? or is it the second half of his “4th” movie??? i aint having a go at you, im just wondering whether u think they are two films or one film. I can’t tell from your post because you say its his “5th” film and yet at the end you say “(Kill Bill as one fuckin movie)”!![/quote]
they were being sarcastic. jackass.
[quote]Is it really his “5th” movie??? or is it the second half of his “4th” movie??? i aint having a go at you, im just wondering whether u think they are two films or one film. I can’t tell from your post because you say its his “5th” film and yet at the end you say “(Kill Bill as one fuckin movie)”!![/quote]
Read my post again. Fucking figure it out. Apparently everyone else has ::)
You are an idiot if you are mowing down people who have negative reviews for the film. With your reasoning being, they are stupid and ignorant, don’t understand what it is all “about”, and aren’t “QT fans” and shit. It’s like, if a person hates the fucking movie, they’re actually wrong. When you guys bitched at matrixfan and shit and other people for accusing you of being QT sheep, you guys were just plain out lying. Isn’t it Tarantino himself, and also the general laws of movie watching, to get out of it whatever you want to get out of it? Get a fucking grip, idiots.
You know, I read that JoBlo review and I agree with about 80% of it. Why was Pai Mei cut short and Bill’s nonsense so long? Why have such cool characters when they die in lame-ass ways? Other than being former lovers and of course the whole “shot ya in the head” thing, we didn’t learn anything more about the Bride than we already knew from Volume 1. However, like I said in another thread, the split really hurt this film more than anything.
Ok, so I still haven’t seen the movie because it still ain’t out over here. But I pretty much know how it will end, and even though I’m still at a handicap about commenting on it, let me just say this. From what I heard, I think that the ending seems quite fitting. The final confrontation between Bill and the Bride was all about emotion, not about limbs flying around. Once again, QT shows us he has the balls to throw away the typical movie book which states that there should always be this huge, cool fight at the end, and decides to go on his own way. I was initially disappointed as you when I first heard about it, but now the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
And JDK, please don’t call me an idiot just because I gave that matricfan piece of shit the beating he deserved. I loved all of QT’s films up till now…from Dogs to Vol.1. They were ALL given critical acclaim, so I don’t know why I should be regarded as a sheep, especially on a fucking Trantino forum. No, I’m not a QT blind worshipper. I think his acting sucks dick, and he should have never contributed in that piece of shit movie called Four Rooms. I also don’t flame anybody who doesn’t like any of QT’s films, as long as the guy shows some fucking respect to my movie taste. matrixfan didn’t do that, so he got what he deserved.I honestly don’t know what the fuck you were talking about there.
One last thing: Can any one tell me an approximate running time of the Pai Mei sequence? That was the chapter I was looking forward to the most. 
hey JDK, fuck you motherfucker, dont EVER tell us matrixfan was right. That fuckin loser isnt worth a SHIT. As far as I’m concerened just the fact that you stuck up for that assclown shows you aint nothin but a troll too.
Dont act like we have to take shit from fuckheads because we love QT’s films while fuckers like matrixfag signed up here for the sole purpose of knocking us for it.
Kill Bill is a fuckin masterpiece and I could give a shit if you or any other goon didnt like it.
I won’t bother writing a complete review because I’m fairly sure all my points have been made.
What I will say is this. I don’t agree with people who think the ending was anti-climatic and boring. Personally I was glad to see it end the way it did. For me, the entire ending would have been way too drawn out if they had included another 5 minute fight scene. I think it was fitting.
The only thing I’m torn about is the fact that QT didn’t include the fight scene initially in the script that would show off Bill’s ruthlessness. I thought it was almost an injustice to not use Carradine in a sword fight sequence.
Regardless, it’s still a really fantastic film.
[quote]Is it really his “5th” movie??? or is it the second half of his “4th” movie??? i aint having a go at you, im just wondering whether u think they are two films or one film. I can’t tell from your post because you say its his “5th” film and yet at the end you say “(Kill Bill as one fuckin movie)”!!
[/quote]
No, it’s one movie, but because it was far too long( like 4 or 3 1/2 hours) it was split in half. The show the commercials for vol.1 that said:“The 4th film by Quentin Tarantino” and vol.2 is “The New film by QUentin Tarantino” So, technically, it’s his 4th film. ;D
[quote]
they were being sarcastic. jackass.[/quote]
I realised after i posted that he was being sarcastic because i realised the quotation marks, but then it was too late for me to do anything about it! And don’t call me a jackass you fuckin arsehole
part 2 of my kill bill review is up… this basically goes over my reaction to the love story and shit… huge spoilers, of course.
http://www.thedavepage.net/kill_bill/story.html
enjoy
hey JDK, fuck you motherfucker, dont EVER tell us matrixfan was right. That fuckin loser isnt worth a SHIT. As far as I’m concerened just the fact that you stuck up for that assclown shows you aint nothin but a troll too.
Dont act like we have to take shit from fuckheads because we love QT’s films while fuckers like matrixfag signed up here for the sole purpose of knocking us for it.
Kill Bill is a fuckin masterpiece and I could give a shit if you or any other goon didnt like it.
Man I couldn’t agree with you more, I mean here is a fag who just signed up to piss real QT fans off, and now we have assholes like JDK defending him. Kill Bill was a masterpiece in every sense of the word. QT is a genious and I found nothing wrong with long takes of the most interesting dialogues with Bill and the Bride (that Superman monologue was just pure insight). And if some of you didn’t like Kill Bill then just say that but don’t go defending piss of shit like MatrixFan.
take it easy on JDK, he wasnt trying to side with matrixfan as much as he was trying to say that maybe some of the negative reviews of vol.2 might have some truth to them, and that we shouldnt bash negative reviews simply because they we dissagree with them. but i think he was mostly talking about people like you, Zeeman, who are completly ignorant that people have different opinions on things.
[quote]I dont even know who Fidelio1st is. Never seen him in here or talked to him about QTs films. I can tell just by reading his review that hes not a real fan of Grindhouse films or cinema in general. All he can say is obvious stuff that most “critics” will write about a movie they didnt get.
[/quote]
I just got around to reading that clown’s review, and I’m almost inclined to go the other way. I WILL agree that this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about and his opinion sucks. However, even some of the most moronic critics would stop short of comparing Kill Bill Volume II to the Matrix trilogy or the Pai Mei segment to Jackie Chan movies. My point: he’s not even falling into step with common consensus of the critics who didn’t get it, he’s passed the bounds of film stupidity and ignorance.
[quote]part 2 of my kill bill review is up… this basically goes over my reaction to the love story and shit… huge spoilers, of course.
http://www.thedavepage.net/kill_bill/story.html
enjoy[/quote]
Those links aren’t working for me. Could you just post your review here? Thanx
part one of part one:
PART ONE (the movie and all that)–
“So began the massacre of the Shaolin temple and all 60 of the monks inside at the fists of the White Lotus. And so began the legend of Pai Mei’s Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique.”
"And what - pray tell - is the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart technique?"
Don’t worry, it’s spoiler-free!
Before I get into the movie, let me start by saying a few things.
I never expected Volume 2 to be the fast-pased, action-heavy masterpiece that Volume 1 was. You just can’t compete with anything like Volume 1 in terms of action, especially considering the House of Blue Leaves fight is in it. Either way, I expected it to blow me away in ways dissimilar to the way Volume 1 did. Where Volume 1 set up the story in an exciting, unreal, and sometimes seizure-inducing experience, Volume 2 concludes it in a very different way. To this day, Volume 1 still amazes me. I still smile as if it’s the first time watching it. It has yet to age or show signs of getting stagnant like most movies. I haven’t found a movie that’s as watchable as Volume 1, nor will I probably ever.
That is, until tonight.
To say Kill Bill Volume 2 is a bad movie is like being Catholic and saying Jesus is an asshole and should have a shit-covered cock shoved in his mouth. To say Kill Bill Volume 2 was not a life-altering experience is like being smoked by an SUV going 45 miles per hour and saying it didn’t hurt. To say Kill Bill Volume 2 wasn’t the most hyped event of my entire life is like saying that im not going to die someday.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. I worship Tarantino for a reason. Kill Bill Volume 1 is the reason I want to be a filmmaker. As a designer, I saw Kill Bill as the greatest piece of artwork I had ever seen. Better than any painting (painting sucks by the way), drawing, or whatever. Even still, it was only one half of the whole grand scheme of things.
Even so… Kill Bill Volume 2 is without a shadow of a damn doubt an un-fucking-believable movie on all levels.
The concluding chapter to The Bride’s journey is an interesting one to say the least. We learn more about the massacre at Two Pines Wedding Chapel, how she learned her skills by training with kung-fu master and extremely old guy Pai Mei, and of course, she off’s the 3 people left on her list.
So where to start… I don’t know where to begin with this masterpiece, so, I guess I’ll start with the flaws, and since calling them flaws is stretching it, so I’ll call them “ka-jiggers”.
Ka-jigger number 1 is the pacing of the movie. Compared to Volume 1, it’s slow as blood being trickled down the cheek of Gogo. Again, this isn’t a bad thing, it’s a ka-jigger. As I said above, I never expected this to be the samurai kill-fest that Volume 1 was. The pacing was a little shocking though. Tons of backstories and character development as opposed to endless slaughter. Again, NOT a bad thing.
continued in next post…
part two of part one:
This brings up my next point. The dialogue in this movie is simply hypnotic. The film is littered with it like Tarantino films of the past, and it’s just great. David Carradine plays Bill flawlessly and executes his dialogue like a pro. Budd, played by Tarantino veteran Micheal Madsen, is extremely badass, and says some very cool lines that will be undoubtely repeated by many people in the future.
"Aint nobody a badass with two barrels full of rock salt dug deep in their tits"
Which now brings up ka-jigger number 2. Bill isn’t as badass as he was in Volume 1, and that’s because he’s become fleshed out. We didn’t even see him in Volume 1, which made him a mysterious entity of sorts, and that fucking RULED.
However, that brings up my next point. As not-as-badass-as-I-thought, Bill is a fucking incredible character. Knowing him gives this movie the emotional edge, and it totally adds to the movie in numerous ways. No longer is it simply a blood-hungry revenge flick. It becomes the greatest love story I’ve ever witnessed. Fuck The Prince and Me. This is just fucking incredible on all counts. I felt bad for Bill. Hell, I felt INCREDIBLY bad for Bill. It rearranged my head so much. Once everything falls into place, you won’t know how you feel about anything.
Ka-jigger number 3 - It’s just not as cool as Volume 1. It’s cool, TRUST ME. Pai Mei alone is reason to see this movie for coolness. It still retains the fucking incredible fighting, but there isn’t as much of it, which, again, I expected. Another thing it retained, but not as frequently, was the wicked cool sound effects that littered Volume 1. The woosh of fists and swords flying, the ting of swords clashing, and the coolest of all, a WA-PISH whiplash sound during the breathtaking fight with Elle.
Which brings up the violence in the movie. It is fucking VIOLENT. And not in a Volume 1 sort of way, but in a “holy shit that really is violent” sort of way. The Bride suffers incredibly in this movie by getting shot and getting fucking BURIED ALIVE among other things. The violence is definately more realistic this time around, and it helps in the emotional grand scheme of things.
The fact that this used to be part of the first movie is crazy since it’s so different in nearly every regard. This isn’t a bad thing at all, it just seems so unreal. As I write this, listening to the soundtrack, I still have trouble swallowing it. I think it’s possible that I’ve witnessed the pinnicle of filmaking. Not so much Volume 2, but the whole package. Where Volume 1 was a grindhouse samurai blood-fest, Volume 2 is a spaghetti-western emotional romp that just grabs you by the heart. This movie is Pai Mei’s five point palm exploding heart technique.
There’s so much I could say about this movie. Plot points that destroyed me, things I noticed, connections to things, etc. However, I don’t want to spoil it. I’m just going to leave it the way it is now, and let you all see it.
So the only question that remains is this - Would it have been better as one movie?
If you ask me, yes, absolutely.
The action of Volume 1 with the emotion of Volume 2 combined into a 3 or so hour movie would be even more brilliant than these 2 movies, if it was possible. Volume 1 would set you up for the emotional romp of Volume 2, and they would deliver perfectly.
All in all, I’m speechless. Again. I don’t know how he did it, but Tarantino delivered something so incredible that it just… I don’t know. I really don’t know. Leave me alone god damn it.
Movie Score - 10,000,000/5
part one of part two:
PART TWO - Love story analysis, and my opinion on it.
Kill Bill Volume 1 put my life into perspective as far as how I wish to live it - as a filmmaker. Volume 2 rearranged my head and left me realizing the very reason cinema was even created. How one movie can take so many different things and weave them together so seamlessly is a true statement of the work of Quentin Tarantino, a genius in the movie industry. Anybody who denies his genius is a fool.
What started out as a complex grindhouse action juggernaut ends as a tragic and twisted love story that made me leave the theater and even the day after feeling a bit depressed. How it did it, I will try to find out. Read on.
We all know what happened in Volume 1, that’s for sure. Volume 2 is a different story. It’s almost a completely different movie. The moods, the experiences, the ideas, everything. It’s just insane. This article will serve as an analysis of the love theme, and my interpretations of it.
Oh yes, tons of spoilers ahead.
At the end of the movie, Bill gives a brilliant monologue about the relationship that Superman shares with Beatrix. He said that Superman was born Superman. During the day, he hides himself by becoming his alter-ego, Clark Kent. Beatrix was always born Beatrix, but she wanted to become Arlene Plympton. She always is and always will be the world’s most dangerous woman, just as Superman will always be Superman. Her life as Arlene Plympton would be a false and unrealistic one.
So how is this any of Bill’s business?
On the last mission he sent Beatrix on, she had to go and kill Lisa Wong. On the plane ride there, she got sick. While waiting for Lisa, she took a pregnancy test and realized she was pregnant. She never returned to Bill after the mission that she never even completed. Bill feared the worst and thought she was dead. How shocked was he to know that a few months later, he not only found her alive, but found her pregnant, and about to get married to some schmuck?
She finally revealed to him why she didnt return, and that reason is that it would be best for her daughter. Why she didn’t tell him before, she tells him, is because he would have claimed the daughter, and she didn’t want him to be raised in that world. She wanted to start her off with a clean slate.
So now the big question is, who’s the real bad guy?
This is Tarantino’s genius at work. He doesn’t make this your typical movie. Hell it isn’t your typical ANYTHING. The guy you aren’t supposed to be rooting for this whole time (Bill) inspires sympathy, and lots of it. Here’s a list I made of all the things Bea and Bill did wrong to each other.
Beatrix
Doesn’t tell Bill that she isn’t returning, thus, making him think she’s dead
Unbeknownst to Bill, she moves to El Paso, carries his child, and gets married
Overall, not a whole lot of infractions on Bea’s part, but the are all pretty terrible. She let the man who loves her think that she was DEAD. Once he found out she was alive, she broke his heart in ways unimaginable. It should be known that Bill didn’t even know Bea was carrying HIS child until right before he shot her in the head.
Now the things Bill has done wrong.
Bill
Fucked things up royally at the wedding, killing everyone there, and putting her in a four-year coma, thus, not allowing her to live her life the way she wanted to.
continued on next post…
Hmm… as far as wrong-doings go physically, I would say Bill takes the cake. He quite the vengeful bastard. However, it should be noted that Bill’s heart was broken in ways unimaginable. Picture all of the shit he went through happening to you and then say to yourself that you wouldn’t do something terrible. He thought she was DEAD, and when he found out he was alive, he also found out that she was carrying what he thought was her fiance’s child, and she was getting married to said fiance. Not to mention living a dreary life that she didn’t even want.
So now, here are all of the good things they did to one another during the course of the saga.
Beatrix
NOTHING
Bea didn’t do anything positive for Bill. You would think that this is justified because of the wedding massacre, but we also know Bill’s side of the story.
Here are all of the good things Bill did for Bea.
Bill
Sent people out hunting down other people in search of Beatrix
Retained his love for her
Helped her live a life she was more suited to (depends on how you look at it… he DID try to kill her)
Cared for BB (her daughter)
Even after getting his heart broken, he did everything I listed above. Bill shows true love for Beatrix throughout every ordeal he faced. Even before getting killed, he showed nothing but love for her.
So the big question remains, who is the real bad guy?
Well, like most of Tarantino’s movies, the protagonists are usually the bad guys, and I think the trend has officially continued with Kill Bill. Beatrix Kiddo, aka The Bride, is the true bad guy.
Before you all toss rotten vegetables at me, hear me out. Look at this and picture the following realistically - Bill got his heart shattered into pieces that never got picked up. The woman he loved was believed to be dead, and when she was found alive, she was pregnant and engaged.
Read the last sentence again and let it sink in.
The woman he loved was believed to be dead, and when she was found alive, she was pregnant and engaged.
Hmm… That seems pretty evil to me. Does that justify Bill killing everyone at her wedding rehersal? No, but like Bill said - “There are concequences to breaking the heart of a mudering bastard.” Then to top it off, she kills all of his friends and eventually him, all the while stripping him away from his daughter who he loves dearly and has cared for perfectly.
Ah so… it all finally seems so clear.
Tarantino was said to have developed a whole universe with Kill Bill, and it shows. He could make an entire movie about Bill waiting for Beatrix to return, and then end it with the wedding massacre, and I am willing to bet that everybody would see things differently.
So how do I feel now? I really don’t know. I’m still stunned with everything. I think that I’ve figured it all out for the most part, because it really isn’t that difficult, but understanding and coming to grips with it is what really stuns me. The amount of dedication put into this movie is just absurd. The ending I would have liked to have seen was Bill, Beatrix, and BB starting a new life together. I am happy with the ending I saw (the quick battle was perfect), but I really felt bad for Bill and wished that he had lived.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I worship Tarantino for a reason. Anyone who doesn’t appreciate his work is a fool. Plain and simple.
there you have it. if you have another opinion, i’d like to hear it!
this movie was a double edged sword for me. there are some things i loved, and some things i didnt. lets start with the good first.
the whole pai mei chapter. i loved this. it was amazing. the pointless zooms and grainy film just made it so much more enjoyable. not to mention the martial arts was pretty cool. it was way too short for its own good and i think tarantino should have dubbed it. i think that would have been great to add to all the other ways he payed homage to the old martial arts films.
Elle VS The Bride. great fight. really good and ennio playing as they stare each other down. perfect spagehtti-western homage. then with elle flailing like a fish to end it was perfect…sorta.
the music. great music throughout.
the wedding massacre. the way it was shot was so amazingly cool it requires another viewing.
samuel L jackson + quentin tarantino = badass character
Now on to the bad side of things…
the dialouge. now perhaps i was expecting too much when tarantino said it would have dialouge similar to that of his older movies but i just didnt think it was that great. the superman monolgue, while everyone loves it, i just didnt think was that great.
Budd. ok, you have michael madsen, you have quentin tarantino but something is missing. oh yeah! badass character. instead we have budd, the underdeveloped younger brother of bill. an actual fight between the bride and him would have been cool. or just for him to be cooler than what he became. we got absolutely no backstory on him.
deaths. ok techincally the bride doesnt even kill budd or elle. it definetely leaves me wanting something more. i mean you go from the really cool o-ren/bride fight to budd dying from snake posion? elle possibly being dead? i really hope the dvd version helps clears things up.
overall this movie was different from vol. 1. very different. yet the two volumes need each other. if they were combined together with some added budd stuff, id be much happier than i was when vol. 2 finished.
I think the reason the Bride never told Bill about her new life is that she feared he might get jealous and try to kill her, which is exactly what he did. So you can’t blame her for that. Bill is still a psycho, but a sympathetic one.