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[Vol 1] What I liked and disliked about Kill Bill


#1

I wrote an essay on this but it said it was too long so I’ll go for a summary. Same basic information just not worded as effectively. :wink:



The first time I saw the movie I loved it. Except for two parts the anime and the black and white. Upon the second viewing I liked the anime and the black and white. The third viewing I felt something was wrong. I think I pinpointed it on my fourth and final viewing untill DVD.



That said, chapter 4 and chapter 5 are perfect. Sonny Chiba is hilarious and the House of Blue Leaves is the best action sequence ever burned to film. As a matter of fact it’s the best filmmaking I’ve ever seen. EVER. Just chapter 4 & 5 though, not the whole move. And here’s why (backwards).



Chapter 3. I’m not an anime fan. The first time through I hated it but saw it was necessary. The second time through I thought I liked it but I think that was just my mind wanting to find no flaws with this movie I loved so much. The third and fourth times through I didn’t like it. I think the problem is it’s the exposition of the character. The first time through it’s informative. But after a couple views if you’re not impressed with anime you’re thinking “ok ok, i know the story, on with it.” Not that this is a bad thing but it’s the first time anything in any of Quentin’s films has lost instead of gained impact over subsequent viewings since some parts of Dogs.



Chapter 2. Michael Parks and Darryl Hannah were excellent. I thought the Buck sequence was vile. The first time I thought it was disgusting but necessary to go through to enjoy the film. Second I liked it. Third time was same as the first. And the last time I found it vile and unnecessary. If it was my movie I would have had Buck try to fuck her and had her kill him. But it’s not and Quentin’s a mad genius. Obviously some form of this scene was necessary because she had to escape and get the Pussy Wagon, but I think it was done poorly. This could also be due in part to the fact that her killing Buck was the only part of the film I found gutwrenchingly violent. Although there’s no doubt he didn’t deserve that easy of a death. He deserved to have some hard pipe hittin fellas goin to work on him with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.



Chapter 1. Some of the kitchen dialogue sounded very unnatural. Especially the mercy line, when Vivica says beseech, when Uma says splendid, and when she’s talking to the daughter. I also didn’t like the way she narrated the part. I don’t know how else I would have done it but it could have been done better. Other than that it was good and the fight was great.



Prologue was as brilliant as chapters 4 & 5.



Overall my qualms are, the buck scene was vile, I don’t like anime and it loses it’s impact with repeated viewings, and some of the dialogue in the kitchen had bad delivery. In the end the House of Blue Leaves makes up for all this. And I’ve come to love the black and white so much that I have no intentions of going out of my way for the Asian version. So it gets a respectable 9/10. It would have gotten a 10/10 if the Buck scene was done more tastefully, it would have gotten an 11/10 if in addition to that the kitchen dialogue was better. Forget the anime that’s just my problem.



Oh, and the first time through I was pissed off that it was cut in two. The fourth time through I applauded it as there was no way I could handle another 2 hours in one sitting. An intermission would have worked.



Turns out there’s no point in second guessin’ first impressions. I would have given it a 9/10 then for the same reasons. Interesting how perception arcs.


#2

I felt kinda the opposite. Even though the Prologue was my favorite scene in the movie, I really didn’t dig the whole blaxploitation/Vernita sequence, and I didn’t really like much of the hospital flashback, either. It wasn’t until the anime part flashed up on screen that I truely and utterly began to enjoy this movie. I just kinda settled into it at that point, and began to enjoy it more and more as the movie progressed.


#3

I loved every bit of this movie every single time I saw it. First time I saw it the whole walk back to the cars I was going “Why the fu*k was that movie so goddamn good!!!” to my friends. Not a question a statement.



Best.Movie.Ever.Made.



I was pissed off at the end though, when the credits rolled up i was like still sitting there hoping they lied to us about the cut and show the whole movie…but no luck. I coulda watched 5+++++++ hours more of that masterpiece.


#4

[quote]


That said, chapter 4 and chapter 5 are perfect.  Sonny Chiba is hilarious and the House of Blue Leaves is the best action sequence ever burned to film.  As a matter of fact it’s the best filmmaking I’ve ever seen.  EVER. [/quote]

I would’nt go as far as to say the best filmaking ever, but it’s great. I wouldn’t put it above the “Battle of Hoth” in Empire Strikes Back as far great filmaking is concerned.

[quote]Chapter 3.  I’m not an anime fan.  The first time through I hated it but saw it was necessary.  The second time through I thought I liked it but I think that was just my mind wanting to find no flaws with this movie I loved so much.  The third and fourth times through I didn’t like it.  I think the problem is it’s the exposition of the character.  The first time through it’s informative.  But after a couple views if you’re not impressed with anime you’re thinking “ok ok, i know the story, on with it.”  Not that this is a bad thing but it’s the first time anything in any of Quentin’s films has lost instead of gained impact over subsequent viewings since some parts of Dogs.[/quote]

I pretty much agree with you on this. They should’ve went with the Ninja Scroll or Ghost In The Shell anime style. That style have more repeat viewing value to it.

[quote]Chapter 2.  Michael Parks and Darryl Hannah were excellent.[/quote]

Michael was solid however Darryl I wasn’t too impressed with. Hudson Leick wouldn’t been a perfect casting choice as Elle Driver. Quentin dropped the ball there.

[quote]I thought the Buck sequence was vile.  The first time I thought it was disgusting but necessary to go through to enjoy the film.  Second I liked it.  Third time was same as the first.  And the last time I found it vile and unnecessary.  If it was my movie I would have had Buck try to fuck her and had her kill him.  But it’s not and Quentin’s a mad genius.  Obviously some form of this scene was necessary because she had to escape and get the Pussy Wagon, but I think it was done poorly.  This could also be due in part to the fact that her killing Buck was the only part of the film I found gutwrenchingly violent.  Although there’s no doubt he didn’t deserve that easy of a death.  He deserved to have some hard pipe hittin fellas goin to work on him with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.[/quote]

Buck’s death worked out well for me. It’s the guy who got killed, who paid Buck to fuck Uma I didn’t understand completely. She bites and pulls the guy’s lip and all of a sudden he’s dead on the floor?

[quote]Chapter 1.  Some of the kitchen dialogue sounded very unnatural.  Especially the mercy line, when Vivica says beseech, when Uma says splendid, and when she’s talking to the daughter.[/quote]

I agree with you here. What hurt the dialogue here was the word “bitch” was used too much. Leave that out and the dialogue wouldn’t seem as unnatural.

[quote]I also didn’t like the way she narrated the part.  I don’t know how else I would have done it but it could have been done better.[/quote]

I didn’t mind the narration.

[quote]Other than that it was good and the fight was great.[/quote]

That fight was intense, fast, and brutal. LOVED IT.





I’ve seen it 4 times and my rating stays at 4 1/2 stars out of 5.


#5

personally, what I didn’t like was:


  • the jigsaw structure of the film. she’s in Pasadena BANG she’s in tokoy BANG she’s somewhere else. I think QT should’ve filmed more transitions like in the script, where she gets new passports, gets outfit, and so on. the bride on the motorcycle. where did she get that? where did she get the suit? there should’ve been more story-fillers


  • the hospital scene was too short and not provocative enough. the script was a lot more exploitive.


  • the opening credits were a bit cheap. with all the numbers and stuff, I’d have preferred just one name after the other


  • the HOBL scene went fast, slowed down, went fast, slowed down. I think a more steady rise in speed and intensity would’ve been better.


  • the anime sequences were very roughly drawn. as much as I dislike it, I still love the idea of the anime, but the way it was drawn is just cheap. I am not an anime expert, but why not draw the characters as detailed as the background was? kinda disappointed me





    what I liked a lot, was:


  • the music in general


  • the emphasis on the women’s asses, hehe


  • Buck’s character. just plain cool. and the Trucker was cool as well, you know the actor from Little Nicky


  • the following actors were little gems: the girl playing Nikkia, Michael Bowen, Julie Dreyfus, the guy who played ‘Charlie Brown’, Kenji Oba - the sushi assistant.


  • I loved the comedy scene in the sushi bar. a total hommage to slapstick comedy. this was plain fun and great acting


  • the fight with Vernita. If your theater had good sound, you could feel how it must’ve hurt. and it ended cool

#6

Tarantino Forum Admin, but that’s because it’s the style of Japanese anime.  Makes sense… wouldn’t it?



The Kitchen dialogue was fine, I don’t know what the fuck you guys are talking about.



“I know I don’t deserve your mercy or your fogiveness, however… I beseech for both on the behalf of my daughter…”



“Bitch – (cutting her short) you can stop right there.  Just because I won’t murder you in the eyes of your daughter doesn’t mean parading her around infront of me in gonna inspire sympathy.  You and I have unfinished business, and not a goddamn fuckin thang you’ve done in the subsuquent 4 years… … including… getting knocked up… is gonna change that.”



“So when do we do this?”



"It all depends… when do you want to die?"



That’s fucking brilliance, maybe it was the way Vivica said it that you didn’t like.





You might’ve not liked the whole Buck scene, but the way it was done was again… “fucking brilliance”.



He comes in, “Hey buddy you have a good time”  see’s he’s all messed up. “Whoa”.  All the meanwhile that music is playing (I don’t what it is… some Japanese music.  goto http://www.kill-bill.com and enter the flash site, and click on the sword - that’s the music) while they’re in slowmotion moving down, revealing the bride with a knife hidden behind the door, the music getting louder and louder, the suppense is growing, then BAM she slices the back of his foot.  The way it was done was great.



He has done this in Pulp Fiction as well, when Lance says “We’ll count to three”.  And it freezes on two, cueing to everyone’s reactions, making the audience anticipate what they know is going to happen.  Great suppense builder QT is.



The only thing I actually disliked about the movie was the Music used when she opened the trunk to ask sophie questions, which was extremely minor.


#7

As per some of the odd dialouge choices, ive seen reviews were people assume he is doing it on purpose, sort of harking back to poor dubs and translations in general. of course, those are just reviewers



Personally i enjoy anime, and i liked the scene. I enjoyed the dirtiness of it, and was suprised since i expect something really really polished.



What i didnt like?



No training montage (sp). I think that would have helped chapter 4. Intercut between her training and him making the sword.



That odd cut after she finds the Pussy Wagon. The music just stops…its kinda jarring.



Thats about it really. To me at least its unquestionably my favorite movie


#8

Before i forget.



Although not technically part of the movie, i wasnt that fond of the trailer. It comes off a different type of goofy than the movie itself.



Luckly that scene were Uma and Lui pull back from the sword fight in the snow and land their poses was interesting enough to attract my attention. I didnt think most hollywood type movies would do that, and rather just have them keep going throughout the fight


#9

I for one, like the anime sequence. Shit, I don’t even like anime in general but I still liked it. I think the movie is absolutely perfect, expect for the black and white part of House of Blue Leaves. That should’ve been in color, or at least partial color. Otherwise I think the movie’s awesome.


#10

[quote]I wouldn’t put it above the “Battle of Hoth” in Empire Strikes Back as far great filmaking is concerned.[/quote]

I never even considered that. It’s light years beyond that. The only action sequence I’ve ever seen that comes close to House of Blue Leaves is the truck chase in Raiders.

[quote]It’s the guy who got killed, who paid Buck to fuck Uma I didn’t understand completely. She bites and pulls the guy’s lip and all of a sudden he’s dead on the floor?[/quote]

That’s kinda why I was sayin they shoulda cut him.

[quote]- the hospital scene was too short and not provocative enough. the script was a lot more exploitive.[/quote]

Seb, I think you nailed it. If it would have been does as in the script it woudn’t have been as vile I don’t think. It still woulda been gross but in the maynard and zed kinda way.

[quote]- the HOBL scene went fast, slowed down, went fast, slowed down. I think a more steady rise in speed and intensity would’ve been better.[/quote]

I loved that. I think it worked really well. It gave you a breather. I don’t know it was perfect to me. HOBL has no flaws.

[quote]- the anime sequences were very roughly drawn. as much as I dislike it, I still love the idea of the anime, but the way it was drawn is just cheap. I am not an anime expert, but why not draw the characters as detailed as the background was? kinda disappointed me[/quote]

Pretty much how I felt. It was a great idea. Just drawn in a different style would have been better.

[quote]The Kitchen dialogue was fine, I don’t know what the fuck you guys are talking about.



“I know I don’t deserve your mercy or your fogiveness, however… I beseech for both on the behalf of my daughter…”[/quote]

Name me one middle-aged mother in the suburbs you know that uses the word beseech.

[quote]As per some of the odd dialouge choices, ive seen reviews were people assume he is doing it on purpose, sort of harking back to poor dubs and translations in general. of course, those are just reviewers[/quote]

Yeah I thought it might have been a blaxploitation homage. God knows Shakespeare didn’t write that dialogue.

[quote]That odd cut after she finds the Pussy Wagon. The music just stops…its kinda jarring.[/quote]

That was a blaxploitation homage.





It just bothers me that I have so many problems with the first half of a film that has such a brilliant second half. But the brilliance of the second half does a good job in erasing the memory of the first half from my mind. But some of those moments are like fingernails on a chalkboard.


#11

He comes in, “Hey buddy you have a good time” see’s he’s all messed up. “Whoa”. All the meanwhile that music is playing (I don’t what it is… some Japanese music. goto http://www.kill-bill.com and enter the flash site, and click on the sword - that’s the music) while they’re in slowmotion moving down, revealing the bride with a knife hidden behind the door, the music getting louder and louder, the suppense is growing, then BAM she slices the back of his foot. The way it was done was great.



That was great. It was how it led up to that part that I didn’t like.


#12

I loved every part of the film. I understood each chapter and I just was either being thrilled, laughing or watching the filmmaking process take place (directing/photography are simply beautiful).



ShawScope/Feature Presentation credit: Great Grindhouse intro. Perfect. Excited. ÂÂ



Old Klingon Proverb/The opening scene: A movie referencing another movie, supercool. The Bride/Bill: Incredible, shocking. I was holding my breath, then BANG! I jumped outta my seat.



The credits/Bang Bang song: Setting the eerie, sad mood. Perfect song. B&W credits (reminded me of the beginning of DePalma’s The Fury or Dressed To Kill).



Chapter 1: …Bride Vs Vernita started quiet as The Bride pulls up to her house and walks to her front door. The door opens, Vernita sees The Bride, zoom into Umas eyes with the spaghetti western  flashback. Vengeance theme plays over it: My adrenaline went out of my body. The fight was quick and brutal. The talk in the kitchen and the overhead shot was awesome. I’m thinking, QT is making a movie. Not just filming scenes. Hes thinking outside the lines. Excellent.



Chapter 2: Blood Splattered Bride: The entire hospital chapter I really enjoyed. It had a giallo/horror movie feel to it. I also really loved the look of the chapter, the blue hue. We see The Bride in the coma and then Elle Driver comes into the hospital. Shes whistling that creepy Twisted Nerve theme. I loved that. Then theres the awesome split screen sequence with her putting on her nurse outfit/Umas closed eye. She enters the room, almost gives The Bride in injection and Bill suddenly calls. Shes pissed off. She splits. I started laughing when I saw the fake little fly sucking her arm. It looked SO fake, it was completely obviously done for that b-movie effect. When The Bride wakes up, I was riveted. Uma put so much emotion into that small amount of time between Elle and Buck showing up. I was really feeling for her after she had that moment of crying for her baby. The whole Buck part was PERFECT. It was just how I imagined it. It was also great the way the sequence changed from totally sad to hilarious when Bucks telling the trucker what he can/cant do to her. Then the part I had been wanting to see since I read the script THE MOST DISGUSTING JAR OF VASELINE IN CINEMA!!! lol!! That was great! Ok. When Buck leaves and the Truckers like “yeahhh baby” then SHOCK CUT of Uma biting his lower lip like a piece of bubble yum!! AHHH! The music when Buck comes in is that awesome theme from Fulci’s The Psychic, its like a horror movie then when I saw the slo motion pan down Bucks legs to Uma with the knife. AWESOME! It reminded me of Friday The 13th when they do the slow mo in them. The Bride slides Buck over to the doorway and she sees his fingers BUCK, FUCK. Then we do the flashback of Buck. Then back to present Uma starts slamming his melon in the door. She sends him to the promised land. She sees his Pussy Wagon keys (Pussy Wagon?..FUCKER!) and she puts on his Elvis shades. Shes lookin for the Pussy Wagon in the wheelchair (awesome blaxploitation music playing) and suddenly finds it and gets in. The Wiggle Your Toe part is great. too. Funny stuff.



The Origin of O-Ren Ishii: From beginning to end I was mezmerized. Im not a huge Anime fan, but this part just was beautifully done and very violent. The most violent anime i’ve seen. The look of the anime was very gritty and it had a 70s edge to it. It reminded me of Ralph Bakshis work. With that eerie spaghetti western music playing over it (Grand Duel). The japanese/italian flavors mixed together were perfect. An excellent Anime chapter.





to be continued…


#13

[quote]I loved every bit of this movie every single time I saw it. First time I saw it the whole walk back to the cars I was going “Why the fu*k was that movie so goddamn good!!!” to my friends. Not a question a statement.



Best.Movie.Ever.Made.



I was pissed off at the end though, when the credits rolled up i was like still sitting there hoping they lied to us about the cut and show the whole movie…but no luck. I coulda watched 5+++++++ hours more of that masterpiece. [/quote]
Just so you know your allowed to say whatever you want, including FUCK.


#14

I liked the whole movie but I’ll do this anyway.



Liked:

-Quentin’s choice of women. In general (in all of his movies), he casts attractive (sometimes beautiful) women, not hot women. There’s a big difference and it gives his movies a great feel.



-The anime. I’ve never really liked anime, like pokemon and shit, but this was the best anime I’ve ever seen. I loved it.



-All the music, especially the “warning” music. Hilarious.



-The entire hospital scene. Daryl whistling is fucking brilliant and the hospital seems so nice and serene. When she enters the Brides room and the windows all stormy outside, it’s great. I was not expecting that in the window. When she killed buck, everyone in the theatre was squirming. Definitely the most disturbing, vile, whatever you wanna call it scene in the movie, but it was still cool.



DIDN’T LIKE:

-The scene with Sofie, Bill, the Bride at the end. I could barely understand what the bride was saying inside the motorcycle helmet. It seemed a very unfitting end to the movie. And even when I learned what she said, it still seemed kind of weak.



-I thought the scene where the police inspect the wedding massacre could have been better. I DID like this scene, but it wasn’t one of my favorites.


#15

[quote]
-All the music, especially the “warning” music. Hilarious.
[/quote]

Oh, snap I forgot about that. I was rollin when that warning music was going on. I was giddy like a horny school girl. Shoot, I was fucking giddy like a school girl the entire movie.



There’s just so much to like about this movie I can’t even mention or even remember it all. Too bad I only saw it once. Hopefully I’ll get to see it again before the theatres stop playing it.


#16

I fucking love this one part - it’s in HOBL I think. The bride sees O-Ren I think and there’s already some other music playing but they play that “warning” music anyway. It was obviously done as a joke. People in the theatre were cracking up.


#17

I know. It’s such a simple obvious crack at cheap B-movies.


#18

[quote]


I never even considered that.  It’s light years beyond that.  The only action sequence I’ve ever seen that comes close to House of Blue Leaves is the truck chase in Raiders.[/quote]

Light years beyond the Battle Of Hoth? Can I have some of what you’re smoking. That must be some good shit.


#19

[quote]Light years beyond the Battle Of Hoth? Can I have some of what you’re smoking. That must be some good shit.[/quote]

Check the thread about going to see Kill Bill on drugs and that will answer your question. I’m a huge Star Wars fan. But I don’t think the Battle of Hoth was directed as well as HOBL.



I can’t wait to see the rest of what Toothpick has to say. So far he has the same reaction I had (I loved the overhead shot, hasn’t got to the dialogue yet).


#20

one more thing that bothered me. pretty sure this is the last thing. the shot of lucy liu’s brain. it looked really fake and took me out of the movie for a second. keep in mind while i have a half-dozen little complaints i still LOVE this movie.



And yeah, when it cut to the vengence theme for lucy liu that was a great b-movie homage, as was the car door cutting the music off.