Structure

The Outside World Filmmaking & Screenwriting
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[quote]Beatrix was an assasin. That to me makes her a villain. Just because Bill is against Beatrix, does not automatically make her a hero.[/quote]

Heros can be the most unlikely of people. And yes it does make her (the) hero because Bill, the Villain (obviously out of the two and from the film’s viewpoint, he is the Villain), is her biggest obstacle.

[quote]It was Beatrix’s wrongdoing that brought this whole situation into play, in the first place. If she hadn’t have run off with the baby (which is very villainous) Bill would never have tried to kill her. It was Beatrix that started it.
[/quote]

So which is more evil in your eyes: running away with someone else’s baby (which was HERS as well), or shooting somebody in the head? Hmmm. And you have to look at her intentions to see the whole situation for what it really was. Bea wanted to escape the assassin life and give her child a chance to grow up without all that bloodshed that she had to endure, while that wouldn’t have been able to happen if she had stayed with Bill. “She started it” is just a poor excuse.

[quote]Getting revenge on someone, because what you had originally intened to do, villainously, didn’t go quite to plan, doesn’t make you the hero, you are simply a bad guy that wants revenge on another bad guy.[/quote]

In every Revenge film, there is a Villain and a Hero. The lines may be crossed sometimes, but it’s evident that Bea was the Hero because she was the protagonist of the film and she was the one who had to fight through however many people because of what she so strongly believed in. Line three for the definition of “Heroine” (which is the correct term) reads:



The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation



Heroine Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com



You do know what the concept of “Revenge” is, right? Beatrix wouldn’t have had to take revenge if she hadn’t been wronged in the first place by being shot in the head, having her friends killed, and her baby murdered as well (or so she thought). Maybe her path started out only for her own sake, but by the end of the film she was trying to save another’s life as well and it wasn’t just all about her.

[quote]Being a hero does not make you a good guy. Achilles was a hero, is he a good guy?[/quote]

Beatrix found redemption by the end of the film, so yes she was a good guy.

[quote]I am also questioning whether Bill really was most at odds with Beatrix. To me, it seemed Elle wanted Beatrix dead more than anybody.[/quote]

The name of the film is KILL BILL and the person who was most at odds in Bea’s eyes was Bill, because that was the person who orchestrated everything and it was he who she most wanted to enact revenge upon.

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[quote=“deliveryman”]
Btw, just to add to the side conversation that seems to have erupted here:



Beatrix in Kill Bill is definitely the heroine if the story, just because of the way it’s presented to us.



While watching the movie, we’re cheering for Beatrix, our thought process isn’t, “well, she deserved it, and I really don’t believe violence is the answer, what she needs is councelling.” Everyone in the theatre wanted to see Uma kick some ass. She was the hero.
[/quote]That’s what I said. . .I spoke to QT yesterday. Me and him are close buddies. He said this about his film, “Kill Bill is about the feeling of vindication, in life you fight your way through everything and stop at nothing until its finished.”

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[quote]Heros can be the most unlikely of people. And yes it does make her (the) hero because Bill, the Villain (obviously out of the two and from the film’s viewpoint, he is the Villain), is her biggest obstacle. [/quote]



You’ve just repeated yourself there. Someone who has a villain as an obstacle, does not neccessarily make them a hero. A villain can be against another villain. Hero’s need not come into the equation.

[quote]So which is more evil in your eyes: running away with someone else’s baby (which was HERS as well), or shooting somebody in the head? Hmmm. And you have to look at her intentions to see the whole situation for what it really was. Bea wanted to escape the assassin life and give her child a chance to grow up without all that bloodshed that she had to endure, while that wouldn’t have been able to happen if she had stayed with Bill. “She started it” is just a poor excuse.[/quote]

She would have never got shot in the head if she didn’t run away with the baby. She could have discussed how she felt with Bill, worked out some other arrangement regarding BB. She did not neccessarily have to have grown up surrounded by bloodshed. Bill obviously loved BB, otherwise he would have never taken her.

[quote]Bea wanted to escape the assassin life and give her child a chance to grow up without all that bloodshed that she had to endure[/quote]

Don’t make this sound like Beatrix never wanted to be part of the DiVAS. She only changed her mind once she found out she was pregnant. Beatrix was happy to go around the world, killing human beings for vast sums of money.

[quote]In every Revenge film, there is a Villain and a Hero. The lines may be crossed sometimes, but it’s evident that Bea was the Hero because she was the protagonist of the film and she was the one who had to fight through however many people because of what she so strongly believed in. Line three for the definition of “Heroine” (which is the correct term) reads:



The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation



Heroine Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com[/quote]

She might have been the hero, but she was also a villain.

[quote]You do know what the concept of “Revenge” is, right? Beatrix wouldn’t have had to take revenge if she hadn’t been wronged in the first place by being shot in the head, having her friends killed, and her baby murdered as well (or so she thought). Maybe her path started out only for her own sake, but by the end of the film she was trying to save another’s life as well and it wasn’t just all about her.[/quote]

Bill wouldn’t have had to take revenge if he hadn’t been wronged in the first place by having his daughter taken away from him, from having to lose someone he loved, from having to mourn for all those months.

[quote]Beatrix found redemption by the end of the film, so yes she was a good guy.[/quote]

Yes, I have to agree with you there, she did turn good (as did Budd, Jules, etc). But for he most part, Beatrix was bad.

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[quote]You’ve just repeated yourself there. Someone who has a villain as an obstacle, does not neccessarily make them a hero. A villain can be against another villain. Hero’s need not come into the equation.[/quote]

I had to repeat myself because you obviously didn’t understand what I was saying. Let me repeat myself again: in Revenge films, there is always a Hero and a Villain. The Hero/Heroine is the principal male/female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation. Beatrix is the principal character in Kill Bill; there is no refuting that. And Bill is the character who is at most odds with Bea throughout the film. Hell, Bill even admits that he’s an evil person and he tells Beatrix that she isn’t a bad person. This really isn’t rocket science here.

[quote]She would have never got shot in the head if she didn’t run away with the baby. She could have discussed how she felt with Bill, worked out some other arrangement regarding BB. She did not neccessarily have to have grown up surrounded by bloodshed. Bill obviously loved BB, otherwise he would have never taken her.[/quote]

You’ve seen the movie. You know how far Bill would go to get what he wanted, no matter what. And it was HER baby too; it might have been a bit wrong what she did to not tell him, but it certainly wasn’t evil. And you never answered my question, so I’ll answer it myself: shooting someone in the head and killing their friends/unborn baby is clearly more evil than running away and not telling your baby daddy that you’re pregnant. Since when is shooting an unarmed pregnant woman in the head acceptable in any kind of circumstance?

[quote]Don’t make this sound like Beatrix never wanted to be part of the DiVAS. She only changed her mind once she found out she was pregnant. Beatrix was happy to go around the world, killing human beings for vast sums of money.[/quote]

No shit. That doesn’t change the fact that: she wanted to escape the assassin life and give her child a chance to grow up without all that bloodshed that she had to endure. And things like that can certainly change a person and put everything into perspective.

[quote]She might have been the hero, but she was also a villain.[/quote]

That makes no sense at all. In a Revenge film, there is one main Hero and one main Villain. She might have not been 100% good in every way, but that doesn’t mean she was a villain either.

[quote]Yes, I have to agree with you there, she did turn good (as did Budd, Jules, etc). But for he most part, Beatrix was bad.[/quote]

That doesn’t matter, seeing how she did redeem herself at the end of the film. So everything that came before that didn’t matter once she changed her ways.

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Actually no Snake Charmer I did not shoot myself in the foot with that quote. I perfectly made my point. They deserved to die, and she deserved to die. She had every right in doing what she did. Also yes she WAS an assassin, but most likely every person she killed as an assassin deserved to die in some way.

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Great discussion here! keep it up.



Looking at the situation of BK. She was a villian. She would have kept on killing if it weren’t for her child. Now how is she gonna pay the bills? Work at Burger King? That’s if she follows the hero stint. Sure she and bill had lots of money, but it doesn’t last forever. I see her turning back to old habits.



She was never a hero. We were watching a villian taking revenge. She tried to change, always looking over her shoulder. Invited Bill to the wedding. Does that make her a hero? Was that something heroic on her part? Or just a gesture of kindness.



She wakes up, gets herself together and takes on her old crew. Sure she has reason, but it’s back to what she knows best. She will always be a villian.

47

I think some people have criminal and villain confused. Sure, compared to you and

most of the pepole you know The Bride would be considered a villain because she

breaks the law, but from the perspective of the STORY being told she’s our hero.

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[quote]but from the perspective of the STORY being told she’s our hero[/quote]

Ding ding ding! we have a winner!