[quote=“Relic”]
Wasn’t Vince Agnostic?
[/quote]Yeah, but what does that have to do with anything?
Isn’t that what we’re talking about?
but i think that in pulp fiction there were’t really a bad guy good guy if you ask me.
I don’t think there truly are any good guys in Quentin’s films. His films are about Mavericks, they’re about people who break the law, I have yet to see a “good guy” as a main character in QT’s films. Even The Bride was a villain.
right so who is to say which character is good or bad. in all of his films he always had some betraying someone else.
[quote=“roulette67”]
Thanks for the advise. I’ve gone over your notes with my two screenplays and I’ve got direction on one and can see where I can improve on the other. Reading a book or two I’ve searched out will help too. Screenwriting is work man, whew. But it’s something I love to do.
Thanks for the help, you guys are great.
[/quote]
no problem. Anytime hunney.
Jackie Brown was a petty theif, she stole a half Mill from Ordell. But Beatrix, she’s really the first heroine in all of QT’s films. She was doing the right thing by running away, then Bill found her and all that shit happened. So Beatrix is more of a hero than a villian.
now that’s true.
[quote=“Wookie Tarantino”]
Jackie Brown was a petty theif, she stole a half Mill from Ordell. But Beatrix, she’s really the first heroine in all of QT’s films. She was doing the right thing by running away, then Bill found her and all that shit happened. So Beatrix is more of a hero than a villian.
[/quote]
I disagree. Before Bill fucked her over what was she? She was an assasin! Doing the right thing is a matter of opinion. So she’s in an assasination squad, she gets knocked up and all of a sudden her and her baby are too good for Bill and what he is part of? Bullshit. Beatrix was fucking silly for what she did, it wasn’t big and it sure as hell wasn’t clever. Her killing all those people after her coma, that was fucked up too. In no way does Kill Bill tell me that she was a heroine, running away does not make you a hero, in fact, it makes you the complete opposite.
Wrong buddy. She ran away so that her daughter wouldn’t be apart of Bill’s life the life of the evil the opposite of the hero. What would of happened if Beatrix would of stayed with Bill and she would of had her baby and raised they both raised her? B.B. would of been raised into another assasin just like Beatrix. Just another goon for Bill daughter or not. Now as for the fact of her going after the others i’ll leaved that with a quote from Bud himself. “That woman deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die…but then again so does she.”
Fuck all that shit about BB growing up to be an assasin, everything isn’t so black and white. You could clearly see Bill loved his daughter, he wouldn’t harm her, so I don’t see why living with Bill, the father, would be so bad. So Beatrix wanted out of the Divas, good for her, but she should know that you can’t run run away with a guy’s daughter, and especially not Bill’s.
Also, you just shot yourself in the foot there with that quote, buddy. Pay particular attention to the “but then again so does she” part!!
[quote=“Wookie Tarantino”]
A hero or heroine in a story. But in Pulp all these characters are corrupt and wicked.
[/quote]
Wrong. The protagonist of a story does not have to be the hero or heroine
Straight out of dictionary.com
"2 entries found for protagonist.
pro·tag·o·nist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-tg-nst)
n.
The main character in a drama or other literary work.
In ancient Greek drama, the first actor to engage in dialogue with the chorus, in later dramas playing the main character and some minor characters as well.
A leading or principal figure.
The leader of a cause; a champion.
Usage Problem. A proponent; an advocate."
Like I said, perhaps you should’ve re-read the definition of a protagonist. The protagonist does NOT have to be the “good guy,” just the “main guy.” Often times the good guys are the antagonists.
thats very true.
I agree with deliveryman. You don’t understand what protagonist means.
Protagonist doesn’t mean “the good guy”, it’s just the main character (or otherwise the character that the story is about.)
Vincent is the protagonist in the first story, Butch in the second, and Jules in the third.
EDIT: Oh, deliveryman already posted “THE ANSWER”. This is what you get for not noticing that there’s more than one page of replys.
Btw, just to add to the side conversation that seems to have erupted here:
Beatrix in Kill Bill is definitely the heroine if the story, just because of the way it’s presented to us.
While watching the movie, we’re cheering for Beatrix, our thought process isn’t, “well, she deserved it, and I really don’t believe violence is the answer, what she needs is councelling.” Everyone in the theatre wanted to see Uma kick some ass. She was the hero.
[quote=“Relic”]
I don’t think there truly are any good guys in Quentin’s films. His films are about Mavericks, they’re about people who break the law, I have yet to see a “good guy” as a main character in QT’s films. Even The Bride was a villain.
[/quote]
You must have missed out on some of the endings of QT’s films. One common theme in his films is for the characters to find redemption and change their evil ways as best as they can. Remember Jules promising to be “The Good Shepherd” at the end of Pulp and allowing Pumpkin/Honey Bunny to live? Or Beatrix quitting the assassin business and taking her daughter out of that life in order to actually give her a chance at a normal childhood? Just because you are one thing doesn’t mean you can’t ever change who you are.
[quote=“Hans”]
You must have missed out on some of the endings of QT’s films. One common theme in his films is for the characters to find redemption and change their evil ways as best as they can. Remember Jules promising to be “The Good Shepherd” at the end of Pulp and allowing Pumpkin/Honey Bunny to live? Or Beatrix quitting the assassin business and taking her daughter out of that life in order to actually give her a chance at a normal childhood? Just because you are one thing doesn’t mean you can’t ever change who you are.
[/quote]
Yes, they may later decide to redeem themselves, but all his characters in essence are bad guys.
[quote=“deliveryman”]
Btw, just to add to the side conversation that seems to have erupted here:
Beatrix in Kill Bill is definitely the heroine if the story, just because of the way it’s presented to us.
While watching the movie, we’re cheering for Beatrix, our thought process isn’t, “well, she deserved it, and I really don’t believe violence is the answer, what she needs is councelling.” Everyone in the theatre wanted to see Uma kick some ass. She was the hero.
[/quote]
Just because we’re cheering for Beatrix doesn’t make her a good-guy. In the same way that us cheering for The Godfather, Scarface or Darth Vader doesn’t make them the good-guys.
I think we are getting things confused. I said there truly aren’t any good guys in his movies, that’s different to there being hero’s in the movie.
nm
[quote=“Relic”]
Yes, they may later decide to redeem themselves, but all his characters in essence are bad guys.
[/quote]
Essence has nothing to do with it. If by the end of the film a character does redeem himself, then he is no longer a “bad guy.”
[quote]I think we are getting things confused. I said there truly aren’t any good guys in his movies, that’s different to there being hero’s in the movie.[/quote]
But you also said that The Bride/Beatrix was a villain, which obviously isn’t true.
Hero:
In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
I’d say Beatrix certainly qualifies as a Hero (and not a Villain). Although she didn’t know until her final encounter with Bill, Bea had been constantly risking her life not only to take revenge but also to save the live of B.B. which became her main mission once they eventually met.
Villain:
A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.
A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.
(also vln, v-ln) Variant of villein.
Something said to be the cause of particular trouble or an evil: poverty, the villain in the increase of crime.
Obsolete. A peasant regarded as vile and brutish.
Bill is obviously the villain of the film because he is the most evil (shooting Bea in her head on her wedding day, funding the Tokyo Crime Syndicate, being the biggest obstacle in Bea’s quest for revenge and later redemption as she tries to save B.B.)
And since Bill was most at odds with Beatrix, that would basically mean that Bea was the hero of the story. Heroes aren’t perfect of course, which is a concept that has been found throughout history and Greek mythology i.e. the Achilles Heel, and Bea is far from being a saint. But for all intensive purposes, she is the hero of Kill Bill and Bill is the villain.
[quote=“Hans”]
Essence has nothing to do with it. If by the end of the film a character does redeem himself, then he is no longer a “bad guy.”
But you also said that The Bride/Beatrix was a villain, which obviously isn’t true.
Hero:
In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
I’d say Beatrix certainly qualifies as a Hero (and not a Villain). Although she didn’t know until her final encounter with Bill, Bea had been constantly risking her life not only to take revenge but also to save the live of B.B. which became her main mission once they eventually met.
Villain:
A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.
A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.
(also vln, v-ln) Variant of villein.
Something said to be the cause of particular trouble or an evil: poverty, the villain in the increase of crime.
Obsolete. A peasant regarded as vile and brutish.
Bill is obviously the villain of the film because he is the most evil (shooting Bea in her head on her wedding day, funding the Tokyo Crime Syndicate, being the biggest obstacle in Bea’s quest for revenge and later redemption as she tries to save B.B.)
And since Bill was most at odds with Beatrix, that would basically mean that Bea was the hero of the story. Heroes aren’t perfect of course, which is a concept that has been found throughout history and Greek mythology i.e. the Achilles Heel, and Bea is far from being a saint. But for all intensive purposes, she is the hero of Kill Bill and Bill is the villain.
[/quote]
Beatrix was an assasin. That to me makes her a villain. Just because Bill is against Beatrix, does not automatically make her a hero. It was Beatrix’s wrongdoing that brought this whole situation into play, in the first place. If she hadn’t have run off with the baby (which is very villainous) Bill would never have tried to kill her. It was Beatrix that started it.
Getting revenge on someone, because what you had originally intened to do, villainously, didn’t go quite to plan, doesn’t make you the hero, you are simply a bad guy that wants revenge on another bad guy.
Being a hero does not make you a good guy. Achilles was a hero, is he a good guy?
I am also questioning whether Bill really was most at odds with Beatrix. To me, it seemed Elle wanted Beatrix dead more than anybody.