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Quentin Tarantino vs. Roger Avary


#1

From what ive read Roger Avary’s script for Pandemonium Reghn’s pretty much created the gold watch. From the pawn shop scene, to marvin getting shot in the car to the scene where the bullets miss jules and vincent in the apartment. Well i shouldnt say scenes but ideas for the scenes all came from avary. I was just wondering if anyone can conform what was written by QT, and if Avary wrote any of the dialouge. And if anyone can help me find the scipt for Pandemonium Reghns that would be terrific, thanks. :-</E>


#2

Avary wrote the basis for The Gold Watch but I’m pretty sure QT rewrote it with his own dialogue and did it his way.


#3

and beside it is not like Roger Avary wasn’t credited for screenwriting in Pulp fiction lol


#4

i thought tarantino wrote the pawn shop scene the rape scene being a homage to deliverance.


#5

No he did’nt write the pawnshop seen. READ THIS:



PLAYBOY: For both Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction you were accused of borrowing elements from obscure Hong Kong films. Tell us the influences that went into Pulp Fiction. The scene in which Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames are brawling, fall into a pawnshop and end up captured by redneck homosexual rapists, where did that come from? <br/>
TARANTINO: I don’t know exactly how those things happen. I’m about not getting too analytical beforehand and just letting stories take the turns they take.



PLAYBOY: You could compare that pawnshop scene to John Boorman’s Deliverance, if only for the homosexual rape.

TARANTINO: Roger Avary came up with the idea. He’d written a whole script for a movie. I didn’t want to do the whole thing, only one section that fit into Pulp Fiction. I bought that script the way you’d buy a book to make into a movie, just to adapt the part that I liked. That was the scene when the boxer throws the fight and gets chased down by the other guy and they end up in a pawnshop with two guys who are serial killers.



PLAYBOY: Did the “Wake the gimp” sequence come from Avary?

TARANTINO: The gimp and the whole anal-rape torture sequence were his ideas. I wanted to do it because it was a flip reworking of something that was a big deal in Deliverance. This crazy, anal-sex rape was so out of nowhere that I thought it was funny. I thought, Wow, he’s made anal rape really funny.



PLAYBOY: Finally.

TARANTINO: We were worried about getting an X rating. Right around that time, American Me, came out, and it had three anal rapes. It helped our cause



Hahahahaha you can see how he is reluctant to admit that some great seens in pulp fiction werent his by saying, “I don’t know exactly how those things happen. I’m about not getting too analytical beforehand and just letting stories take the turns they take”. But then he finallllly admits about Avary. This kinda shows what kind of a person tarantino is, trying to take all the credit for wting so people will think hes such a great film maker. But he still dosent admit that the marven getting shot accidentally and the bullets missing there targets seens were avarys ideas. To see what ideas were Avarys go to his wiki page and read under Tarantino Years.



ALso if your interested in reading the rest of the playboy interview go here:



<LINK_TEXT text=“http://www.playboy.com/arts-entertainme … no/02.html”>http://www.playboy.com/arts-entertainment/features/quentin-tarantino/02.html</LINK_TEXT>


#6

that is nuts they are some of the greatest scenes in the movie and arguably the greatest story in the movie.


#7

And Avary made a 60 page script that Tarantino rewrote into a 500 page script that became True Romance and Natural Born Killers.


#8

[quote=“ailemrac07”]
And Avary made a 60 page script that Tarantino rewrote into a 500 page script that became True Romance and Natural Born Killers.
[/quote]

yea i heard that before somewhere .


#9

oo wait i thought it was the other way around that avery rewrote true romance down to a lower amount of pages and added a less tragic ending (christian slaters character living).


#10

[quote=“Jjp”]
oo wait i thought it was the other way around that avery rewrote true romance down to a lower amount of pages and added a less tragic ending (christian slaters character living).
[/quote]

Yeah well this all happened after QT made the 60 pg script into a 500 pg one. Tony Scott was already set to direct but he wanted it done in a linear way so Avary pollished it up. I’m pretty sure QT was working on RD at the time so Avary did the rewrite.


#11

If you got a little time and want answers look no further.



The Tarantino years, from rogers wiki page:



Early in his career, Avary made a number of contributions to some of Quentin Tarantino’s movies. He worked as a crew member on Tarantino’s unfinished first film, My Best Friend’s Birthday. He had at one point written a barely feature-length 80-page script called “The Open Road”, which he described as being about the “odd couple relationship between an uptight business man and an out-of-control hitch-hiker who travel into a Hellish mid-Western town together” and compared to Martin Scorsese’s After Hours. After moving on to another screenplay, a spec adaptation of The Silver Surfer, he allowed Tarantino to rewrite his script to add enough length to bring it to a 120-page industry standard length. Tarantino did more than that, turning out a 500-page handwritten behemoth of a screenplay which Avary described as “the Citizen Kane of pop culture.” Impressed with Tarantino’s work, Avary took on a producorial role, and proceeded to work with Tarantino to pare down the script into what would ultimately become True Romance (1993), (Tarantino used the remainder as the basis for parts of his other scripts.) Working as producer, he and Tarantino tried unsuccessfully for several years to get funding so that Tarantino could film the script himself. Eventually, the script was sold to producer Samuel Hadida. Since Tarantino was busy prepping Reservoir Dogs, and disinclined to compromise his work on True Romance (1993), Avary was hired with Tarantino’s consent by Tony Scott and producer Samuel Hadida to work as a script doctor on the script, a job which included bringing the length down, reforming the narrative to a linear fashion, and writing a new, happy ending where the Clarence character isn’t killed.



When the Paul Brothers, a pair of wealthy bodybuilders who wanted to get into the movies, offered Tarantino funding for his script Natural Born Killers on the condition he include a scene featuring them, he couldn’t bring himself to write it out of disgust, and asked Avary to write it for him as a favor. The scene, which has come to be known as the “Hun Brothers” scene, has been described by Oliver Stone as the best scene in the script. It was, however, cut from the final film because, as Stone is quoted as saying on the “Natural Born Killers” special edition laserdisc, “I fucked it up.” Avary also co-wrote the background radio dialogue in Reservoir Dogs (1992), and designed the “Dog Eat Dog” logo which appeared in the end credits.



Most notably, Avary contributed material which, combined with Tarantino’s, formed the basis of Pulp Fiction (1994) for which he and Tarantino won the Academy Award for Best Original Screenplay. Earlier in their careers, Tarantino and Avary had planned on making an anthology movie comprised of three short films; one written and directed by Avary, one written and directed by Tarantino, and one written and directed by a third filmmaker, reportedly Adam Rifkin. When the third filmmaker never materialized, Tarantino and Avary took their respective stories and expanded them into full length screenplays separately. Tarantino’s story became Reservoir Dogs, and Avary’s story became “Pandemonium Reigns”. “Pandemonium Reigns” ended up forming the basis of the “Gold Watch” chapter of Pulp Fiction (an earlier version of his website displayed an excerpt from “Pandemonium Reigns”, illustrating the changes that were made by Tarantino when writing “The Gold Watch”), and other odd scenes Avary had written during his rewrite of True Romance were reworked and incorporated into the Pulp Fiction script, such as the accidental shooting of Marvin, and the scene in which the bullets fired at Jules and Vincent miss their targets. Tarantino and Avary got together in Amsterdam shortly after the release of Reservoir Dogs, and pasted each other’s scenes together into a first draft, after which Avary left to film Killing Zoe, leaving Tarantino to continue subsequent writing of Pulp Fiction. Avary’s bizarre 1994 Oscar speech (for Best Original Screenplay) consisted of “I want to thank my w-tch, a wife, who I love more than anyone else in the world…I’m gonna go now 'cause I really got to take a pee.”


#12

so basically tarantino fucked avery over and now avery has two movies and no fame? correct me if im wrong.


#13

Well think about it this way, if Avary was really as good as Tarantino at writing or directing then he would have been able to do great stuff on his own like Tarantino has, rather then directing Silent Hill.


#14

[quote=“Jjp”]
so basically tarantino fucked avery over and now avery has two movies and no fame? correct me if im wrong.
[/quote]

He fucked him over? If Avary was more talented than Tarantino, his career would be more successful. As it happens, that isn’t the case. Basically, the stories were Avary’s, but QT wrote the dialogue. Furthermore, Avary had nothing to do with Jackie Brown and Kill Bill, yet they are cinematic masterpieces.


#15

[quote=“Ify”]
He fucked him over? If Avary was more talented than Tarantino, his career would be more successful. As it happens, that isn’t the case. Basically, the stories were Avary’s, but QT wrote the dialogue. Furthermore, Avary had nothing to do with Jackie Brown and Kill Bill, yet they are cinematic masterpieces.
[/quote]

You are totally right. I have read a bunch of Avary unproduced screenplays (dali, ranxerox, glamorama…) and none of them is as achieved as any of qt’s script. Yet, he definitly got fucked over. He co-wrote True Romance but got no credit and he co-wrote Pulp Fiction yet he is credited only for the stories. The basic reason is that tarantino wanted to build his image of a writer/director and didn’t want to share a writing credit for his second film. all of qt’s end credit start by the card “written and directed by quentin tarantino”, which legally is supposed to be the opening credit’s last card. this means a lot!


#16

Please dont go back into this fuckin discussion again. We had a fucking WAR over this a few years ago. Just let it go. Roger is where hes at and QT is where hes at. If Roger was as much of a screenplay genius as he claims, he’d be giving QT a run for his money and hes not. Roger got plenty of kudos from Pulp Fiction and hes credited as co-story writer.



And if he still is angry over it: OH WELL.


#17

[quote=“tonyanthony”]
He co-wrote True Romance but got no credit
[/quote]

That’s not QT’s problem


[quote=“tonyanthony”]
he co-wrote Pulp Fiction yet he is credited only for the stories.
[/quote]

He only contributed the stories. He had nothing more to do with them. I don’t think he’ll be complaining seen as he has a nice shiny Oscar.



Also, doesn’t QT also have “Written and Directed by QT” (or a variation) as the last card in the opening credits?



Also, I don’t think it’s fair if a guy contributes a story to a film, yet gets the same credit as the guy that wrote the whole screenplay.


#18

you had a WAR? isn’t it a little too much?


#19

[quote=“tonyanthony”]
you had a WAR? isn’t it a little too much?[/quote]

Yes it was. It wasnt worth it either.


#20

[quote=“Ify”]
That’s not QT’s problem
[/quote]
why not?

[quote=“Ify”]
He only contributed the stories. He had nothing more to do with them. I don’t think he’ll be complaining seen as he has a nice shiny Oscar.



Also, doesn’t QT also have “Written and Directed by QT” (or a variation) as the last card in the opening credits?



Also, I don’t think it’s fair if a guy contributes a story to a film, yet gets the same credit as the guy that wrote the whole screenplay.
[/quote]

As I recall , no such card in the opening credits



The academy gave Avary his nomination. The screenplay was also nominated at the golden globe, but for QT only

[quote=“Ify”]
Also, I don’t think it’s fair if a guy contributes a story to a film, yet gets the same credit as the guy that wrote the whole screenplay.
[/quote]

that is hollywood :slight_smile: