Golden Globe noms

The Films Kill Bill
61

[quote=“CPS”]


Firewall?



When you are writing a post, scroll down.

You can read every post is made in the topic. Then you see on the left site the words INSERT QUOTE. All you have to do is click on it.

1 - 3 seconds later the quote is in the post you write…



This has nothing to do with firewalls or such.

You need no quote tags or have to edit something.



To make sure that a post is like you want, click on preview.
[/quote]

jolly good! i will try that… Thanks for helping out and insufferable fool like myself

62

There are a lot of rules in here GreenDestiny, it will only take you about a year to get used to all of them

63

[quote=“Yasmin”]
There are a lot of rules in here GreenDestiny, it will only take you about a year to get used to all of them
[/quote]

Well, we have some rules, normal thing when so many people come together in the same place. No insults, no spaming, have resepct against other people, just normal stuff, we all should use in our real live too…

And :wink: it seems you like it, cuz you are back again and signed up a second time! ;D ;D

64

I missed Ify ;D and I wanted to add some confirmations to a few gossip stories.

65

[quote=“Yasmin”]
I missed Ify ;D and I wanted to add some confirmations to a few gossip stories.
[/quote]

That’s amusing because it’s true!! :-*



Greendestiny,

I’m not one of these people who thinks Kill Bill is the fuckin best film ever!!!1111one, and should win every award. Pulp Fiction alone kicks this film right off the earth. However, Kill Bill is a fuckin brilliant film one of the reasons of which is that it is a celebration of film making. It is a compilation of the things QT loves, and loves making. He uses so many different styles and set-plays and such, it’s just breathtaking to watch. I have found that Kill Bill (as a whole) is either a love it or hate it kind of movie. I don’t think there was some particularly brilliant acting in it, nor some of that excellent dialogue, but the film still manages to be good. The reason is Quentin Tarantino. The film was so beautifully directed, the music playing in accordance with the imagery was excellent, and all those references and cool moments were breathtaking. I admit, after I watched both of these films, I was very disappointed indeed. But I gave them a second chance and good on me for it. After repeat viewing I recognised the genius of it. This film may not be a “Pulp Fiction” or “The Godfather” or even “The Good, The Bad And The Ugly” but it delivers what we expect…entertainment. Afterall, isn’t that our primary reason for watching film?



I’m not one of these people that praise him for his films even if they are a pile dogs bollocks. I praise simply because i see him for the genius he actually is. It’s surprising how many people actually think he doesn’t even come into the top 10 filmmakers of today. This man clearly has a talent, maybe not for originality, but definitely in directing and writing. I can criticise Kill Bill, and I recognise some of it’s flaws, same goes for his other films, but there is no doubt, he makes ‘proper movies’. “You know after you have seen a QT film that it is A MOVIE, you may not like it, but you know that you have just witnessed a MOVIE”. I fail to see how he is stuck in his obsession with violence. I thought Jackie Brown and Volume 2 had very little violence, and when it was used, tarantino didn’t try to glorify it. I also don’t think he simply regurgitates Pulp Fiction. Jackie Brown , although a crime film, was not going in the same direction as Pulp at all. Characterisation was a major issue here. Kill Bill, also a crime film, has only a minor resemblance to Pulp. Action was the major focus in the first volume, substance in the second. With Inglorious Bastards possibly on the way, a film belonging to a whole different genre proves QT wants to explore his horizons if you will. He is testing himself, and seeing where he can go, what he can really do as a film maker. Good on him for that! I hope he continues to release his masterpieces.

66

[quote=“Yoshitsune”]
@ scarface

That passage sounds cool in TR, in real life it´s just overweening, elitist bullshit. Comments like that aren´t helping anyone, they´re just dividing people into different groups. Like when QT said “there are people in love with movies, and there are people in love with movies they like”. Nonsense.
[/quote]

Well I actually think the TR quote cannot be more true. Do you honeslty think that Titanic is better than Terminator 2 or Aliens? Of course it isn’t, but Titanic is the type of film the Oscar community drools on, and that’s what gave Cameron the Oscar. How about Gladiator? Can you honestly say it’s a better film than Blade Runner or Alien? Of course you can’t, but then again, a Roman epic attracts the eye of the Oscar folks much more than a science fiction movie, no matter how brilliant it is. How about if Scorsese wins Best Picture this year, which is a very good probability? The Aviator really better than Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Goodfellas? Hmm, I don’t think so. It’s as if they waited on purpose for Marty to do a PG-13 movie before they’d hand him the Oscar (of couse assuming that he will win, which everyone is expecting him to do).



Of couse, this is not to say I agree with your second quote. On the contrary, I think the “people in love with movies” comment is a load of bullshit.

67

wow ify, wow…brilliant post, could not have said it any better if i tried. i agree completely



and greendestiny, i’m not too sure how you’re gonna respond to that, but at least answer this: can you not appreciate Kill Bill just as a movie in itself? It seems like you get pissed off over people who compare it to the asian martial arts genre or who use it as a “homage” or what-not, and people who try to raise the acting over other movies. Well I can say that I don’t know shit about kung-fu movies, bruce lee movies, shaw brothers movies, or any of that. everything I know came from what people have said on this forum (someday I plan on watching all these films, but there’s others I gotta get through first!) And I don’t care if Kill Bill wins any awards, I don’t think that takes away anything from its quality (this falls in line with what Scarface is saying)



But i loved Kill Bill…it was by far one of the most entertaining movies I have ever seen, and yet even when it seemed impossible it had character development…not cheap-ass monkey plot twists, but the kind of character development that makes you go back and review all the motivations of the characters in the earlier scenes. But even if you disagree with the story development thing (which i’m sure you do), can you not appreciate it just for…as ify said, a celebration of film making?

68

[quote]
I’m not one of these people who thinks Kill Bill is the fuckin best film ever!!!1111one, and should win every award. Pulp Fiction alone kicks this film right off the earth. However, Kill Bill is a fuckin brilliant film one of the reasons of which is that it is a celebration of film making.[quote]




I have to say again that its cliched statements like this that indicate to me kill bill is such a pretentious movie. I wish people would stop making such broad statements about kill bill. On the surface it seems like a genuine analysis but when you re-examine such statements you realize that they are just empty words. I prefer it if you explained the brilliance I and a whole lot of others seemed to have missed.And by that i want an explicit explanation of a theme or idea or subtext not some ambigous verbiage that really says absolutely nothing. “Celebration of film making” has never been even in the top 100 reasons why i would go see a single movie. And that is another statement that is devoid of any logic. Its kind of like saying “We are going to celebrate alcoholic drinks by drinking alcohol.” Every time i watch any movie, its a celebration of movie making.


[quote]
It is a compilation of the things QT loves, and loves making. He uses so many different styles and set-plays and such, it’s just breathtaking to watch.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

69

(First of all I would just like to say I was half way through writing a reply when my laptop turned off, so bare with me if my points seem rushed)



About the ‘celebration of cinema’ thing.

In school, there used to be the kid who was into sports or one who was at the back of the class room drawing cartoons, well Quentin Tarantino was into movies.



This guy has been watching movies since he was very young. His mum (mom) used to take him to go watch a film almost every week at the local cinema. He took on an occupation which would extend his love of film. Heck, even his name is taken from a film character. Tarantino lives and breathes film. This guy has such a vast knowledge of film that which maybe only Mr. Scorsese can rival. His films are flooded with references to other movies, directors or film characters. He regurgitates his knowledge of film and places them on the big screen. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. His style is that of an autodidact. His knowledge about film dominates his style of filmmaking and writing. His dialogue and narration are influenced by masses of books (Elmore Leonard is partly responsible for QT’s style) and scripts and movies he knows and has read. His filmmaking is influenced by the large amounts of movie scenes the man knows. He is familiar with how to put an actor in a scene and uses style merely to make the audience remember of whatever movie he wanted to pay homage to that way. He doesn’t create a style, he RE-creates styles. He didn’t attend film school, he attended films. Tarantino doesn’t make films for you he makes them for himself. He has such a love and passion towards this art from I can only think of one way to show it and that is to become part of it and make a film himself. In this way, his work is a ‘celebration of cinema’. I’ll end this topic with the following quote “Movies are my religion and God is my patron. I’m lucky enough to be in the position where I don’t make movies to pay for my pool. When I make a movie, I want it to be everything to me; like I would die for it.” - Quentin Tarantino.



Tarantino doesn’t regurgitate his earlier work for his work thereafter. The ‘nifty little shit’ (Red Apple cigarettes, trunk shots, license plate shots, long shots, pop culture dialogue etc) he has is maybe consistent in all his films but that doesn’t mean they are all the same. With the exception of the genre, I cannot see how all of his films ‘are all the same’. Reservoir Dogs was about a heist none of his other films were. Pulp didn’t have characterisation JB did. Kill Bill can’t even be compared with his others, it’s that different. He explores different themes and aspects to the story, they may all be associated with crime but does that really mean all his films are practically the same?





How can a statement such as “Quentin Tarantino is NOT in the 10 greatest film directors” be fact? Is it not a matter of opinion? Are there guidelines you should follow to make it as one of the ‘greatest directors of today’? I also think there are many other great directors out there, they just don’t appeal as much to me as Tarantino does. Just because I say Quentin Tarantino is one of the greatest living directors, you automatically think I have no knowledge of film? I may not know of all the films out there, but that’s beside the point. How do you know when a person has an adequate knowledge of film? Do I need some sort of qualification to make it appropriate for me to say something like I did? What if someone with a reasonable amount of film knowledge claims that QT is one of the best directors living today, would you simply just dismiss them? There are many people here who know of all the other hundreds of film makers, and have seen vast amounts of film, yet they still make statements such as the one I made, are ALL of them wrong just because YOU say so? People are entitled to their opinion. If they think Tarantino’s films are great, so be it. Does a guy who likes Eminem have to listen to all the other rappers out there, just to claim that he thinks Eminem is one of the greatest lyricists? You may have your views on Kill Bill and some of his other films, and your entitled to them, just don’t cry when other people are opposed to them.

70

[quote]


About the ‘celebration of cinema’ thing.

In school, there used to be the kid who was into sports or one who was at the back of the class room drawing cartoons, well Quentin Tarantino was into movies.



This guy has been watching movies since he was very young. His mum (mom) used to take him to go watch a film almost every week at the local cinema.[/quote]

NEWSFLASHl: The average american kid watches at least one movie a week so Tarantinos childhood is no different from any one else’s.

[quote]
He took on an occupation which would extend his love of film.[/quote] Yeah i can see how working in a porno theatre advances ones love of film.

[quote] Heck, even his name is taken from a film character. Tarantino lives and breathes film. This guy has such a vast knowledge of film that which maybe only Mr. Scorsese can rival.[/quote]

And you think you have the authority to say something so ridiculous based on what? Do you have some immense knowledge about all film makers both living and dead that you feel you can make such an outrageous claim.Goodness gracous some of your statements are so absurd yet so telling as to how you brain funtions. I can list well over 20 individuals universally accepted as some of the best minds in film (and i am not talking about directors only) that Tarantino cant even hold a candle to. And i am sure you want every one to so quickly forget that he co-wrote his only one good film with Roger Avary even if the entire world witnessed

both of them accept the academy award for this movie. The man’s greatest work was not even an individual effort!

[quote]
His films are flooded with references to other movies, directors or film characters. He regurgitates his knowledge of film and places them on the big screen. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. .[/quote]



And those of us who look at tarantino's work in a fair minded manner see unbashed plagiarism in his movies where entire scenes were literally lifted from other movies and planted onto his film the only difference being
new actors. That does not translate into brilliance to the majority of people who refuse to even consider him
among the top 10 directors in history of film. He is not innovative and relies too much on other peoples work
to further his own. (This is exactly why is accused of lacking any creativity or ability to branch out to tackle other genres of movies)

[quote] Tarantino doesn’t make films for you he makes them for himself. [/quote]

Yeah! do you need an extra shovel for that manure? Yet again you come out with this worn out tired line that has no logic and insult the intelligence of any one who has watched any kind of movie. (And by the way next time do us a favor and credit the idiot reviewer who you plagiarized that meaningless cliche from)

Do you think people are stupid enough to believe that bullshit about how tarantino made that movie for himself… Why the hell did he release it in 3000 theatres if he made the movie for himself? Why even bother charging people to watch the movie or even sell the dvds instead of giving them out free? Do you think people are dumb enough to believe that the Weinsteins gave well over 70 million to Tarantino so he could go and appease some private indulgence? Why the hell was Tarantino shamlessly pimping this movie on every shallow dill hole show on national tv if he made it for himself? You need to save that crap for people who cant see two feet beyond their noses. I know a dumb statement when i see one and i am not afraid to tell you when you say something as stupid as some director “made a movie for himself”

[quote]
Tarantino doesn’t regurgitate his earlier work for his work thereafter. The ‘nifty little shit’ (Red Apple cigarettes, trunk shots, license plate shots, long shots, pop culture dialogue etc) he has is maybe consistent in all his films but that doesn’t mean they are all the same. With the exception of the genre, I cannot see how all of his films ‘are all the same’. Reservoir Dogs was about a heist none of his other films were. Pulp didn’t have characterisation JB did. Kill Bill can’t even be compared with his others, it’s that different. He explores different themes and aspects to the story, they may all be associated with crime but does that really mean all his films are practically the same?[/quote]

The movies are all the same with the same characters, situations, style of story telling the only difference being a decline in every aspect of the latest releases… (Case and point kill bill with its lethargic dialogue and shallow story line) The stories get more and more bland and even that unecessary shuffling of the scenes cant not hide that. And please save your breath and quit trying to convince me that his movies are not the same. I dont have time to list on the rape scenes, the fascination with violence, excessiveness, shock value and repetitive characters even worse same actors carried over from one movie to the next and same run of the mill themes ever present in his movies… (try and waste some one else’s time on that i have better things to do than argue such an obvious thing)

[quote]
How can a statement such as “Quentin Tarantino is NOT in the 10 greatest film directors” be fact? Is it not a matter of opinion?[/quote]

Simple  it is a matter of fact being that many people can indeed list 10 directors who are leagues ahead of tarantino and have quantifiable tangible achievements in film and are not simply crowned by star struck fans who have spent too much time reading their favorite movie makers autobiography. Just like its a matter of fact that Ashlee Simpson is not in the top 10 greatest musicians in the world simply because any tom dick and harry can name musicians far better than she is…(Its quite elementary actually i dont see why you would be confused here)

71

[quote]
Are there guidelines you should follow to make it as one of the ‘greatest directors of today’?[quote]


No there are no guidelines one should follow to make it as a great film director. But there achievements or plateaus one has to reach before they can be considered being great in any field of work. Be it science, art, music, sports or even crime. You are only considered great if your achievements are indeed unique. There are way more than 10 directors in the movie industry whose careers have achieved way more than some auteur with a grand total of 4 movies under his belt (only one of which is worth the celluloid it was made on and even worse yet was not and individual achievement)

[quote]
I also think there are many other great directors out there, they just don’t appeal as much to me as Tarantino does. Just because I say Quentin Tarantino is one of the greatest living directors, you automatically think I have no knowledge of film?[/quote] YES INDEED!



I hate to be the one to break this to you but people actually judge you based on the things that you say. I really do hope this is not the first time this is being revealed to you.

[quote]
I may not know of all the films out there, but that’s beside the point.[/quote] You actually dont have to know all the films out there, not many people do, but one should make and endevour to appreciate and acknowledge the best works of film out there. Its not a difficult thing to make an effort to find those works singled out as good film.

[quote]
How do you know when a person has an adequate knowledge of film? Do I need some sort of qualification to make it appropriate for me to say something like I did? What if someone with a reasonable amount of film knowledge claims that QT is one of the best directors living today, would you simply just dismiss them?[/quote] Actually i would not dismiss them. I would engage them in discussion and ask of them to explain as to how they came to this conclusion. Its from their elaboration of their statement that one can decipher the strenth or weakness of their opinion. To this point and time you have still failed to make even an iota of a valid argument as to how you came to this conclusion and you are still posting worthless illogical plagiarized one liners that are still as empty as they were on posted from their original forum.

[quote]
There are many people here who know of all the other hundreds of film makers, and have seen vast amounts of film, yet they still make statements such as the one I made, are ALL of them wrong just because YOU say so? People are entitled to their opinion.[/quote]

Are these the same people who claim kill bill to be Oscar worthy? The same people who said kill bill would win a golden globe based on the intense dramatic content in kill bill? Are these people, one of whom classified Akira Kurosawa’s seven Samurai as a story about a bunch of Samurai protecting the village potatoes? (so to speak)



Yet again i find myself in the situation where i have to explain things that you should have figured out in your secondary level of formal education (thats read as highschool). I have to tell you and all the other individuals in here that every tom dick and harry has an opinion…(like saying goes, opinions are like buttholes, every one has one) Even a four year old can have an opinion on their favorite movie.



But the difference between four year olds and you is (should be) the ability to intellectually break down a movie, a book, a sculpture, the ability to understanding its meaning, the message, one should be able to identify its characteristics, its uniqueness and the goal of the author artist, musician etc…

This is exactly why you are asked to read books or watch movies and hand in your paper on the subject you are challenge to review. And you just like those kids in the back of the class who are only good at summarizing the plainly obvious and would get constant “F’s” (that means failure). Just like Scarface’s recent post claiming that he apparently saw some overboard American patrotism themes in the movie Last Samurai.

That was his personal opinion, a dumb and totally ridiculous one that he himself could not defend or even begin to justify and thus gave me the right to dismiss it as the musings of and individual hoplessly incapable of understanding even the simplest forms of cinema. Being able to explain and justify the roots of your opinion is something taught every one all the way upto college. Be you a doctor, lawyer, accountant, politician, you are tasked to explain your opinions and back them up with hard facts. So save that b/s speech about how one should value your opinion even though its devoid of logic and you yourself have failed to explain it. (hence my

conclusion that your opinion is based on a pure lack of understanding of film)




[quote]
You may have your views on Kill Bill and some of his other films, and your entitled to them, just don’t cry when other people are opposed to them.
[/quote]

I am not the one whinning and in a state of shock as to why Kill bill failed to win even the shallow peoples awards or a golden globe. I am the one saying, “i tod you so” kill bill is has some redeemable qualities but is no where near as good as say, Million dollar baby or Sideways, Ray, Hotel Rwanda (just to mention those i have seen)



ps. double posted due the the 6500 character limit on posts[/quote][/quote]

72

KB is a B-Movie



I dont really think one should be looking for a deeper meaning or message, or deep characters or stuff like that.



I dont understand how you can compare it to Ray, Million Dollar Baby and all that, they’re like totally different genres.



Anyways I enjoyed all of QT’s movies, and therefore I regard them as good movies. If thats because I havent seen many movies, which I havent, so be it. KB is my fave film at the moment and I think I enjoy it as much as some movie-guru who’s seen millions of films would enjoy his fave movie.

73

[quote=“Bierbommetje”]
KB is a B-Movie



I dont really think one should be looking for a deeper meaning or message, or deep characters or stuff like that.



I dont understand how you can compare it to Ray, Million Dollar Baby and all that, they’re like totally different genres.


[/quote]

you are indeed very right in your above statement. Please try to drum that into IFy’s head



I never said no one can enjoy kill bill. Several people saw it and loved it. Just like i love the recent LOTR movies. You dont see me going around annointing Peter Jackson the greatest ever while pulling lame ass cliche after cliche out of my ass and asserting the no one ever made any movie worth watching before Peter jackson.

74

[quote=“greendestiny”]
you are indeed very right in your above statement. Please try to drum that into IFy’s head



I never said no one can enjoy kill bill. Several people saw it and loved it. Just like i love the recent LOTR movies. You dont see me going around annointing Peter Jackson the greatest ever while pulling lame ass cliche after cliche out of my ass and asserting the no one ever made any movie worth watching before Peter jackson.
[/quote]

I didn’t start thinking QT was one of the greatest ever directors just after watching Kill Bill. I say that after watching all his films and I would still say it. I didn’t rip my arguments off of anyone, and I meant working at Video Archives in my earlier post not the porn theatre (which I’m sure you know). It’s also not as if I dont think Leone, Scorsese, Hitchcock et al are great directors. Also, it was QT himself that said he makes movies from himself. Anyway, there’s not one fuckin thing you can say to me to make me say “Tarantino is not one of the greatest ever directors” it’s a matter of opinion and that’s mine. Fair enough, you don’t like Kill Bill, ok we get it. Ok, you also don’t think Tarantino is a great director, good for you. I respect your opinion.

75

Green Destiny - And i am sure you want every one to so quickly forget that he co-wrote his only one good film with Roger Avary even if the entire world witnessed both of them accept the academy award for this movie. The man’s greatest work was not even an individual effort.



If that doesn’t prove you are a troll I don’t know what would so get the fuck out of this message board.

76

And as Ive already said…

Ban Him, Ban Him, Ban Him ,Ban Him!!!









Do it NOW!!! ;D ;D ;D





Who’s with me?

77

No, this is the first time in ages that theres actually something truly interesting to read here.

78

[quote=“WeaselCo”]
Green Destiny - And i am sure you want every one to so quickly forget that he co-wrote his only one good film with Roger Avary even if the entire world witnessed both of them accept the academy award for this movie. The man’s greatest work was not even an individual effort.



If that doesn’t prove you are a troll I don’t know what would so get the fuck out of this message board.
[/quote]



Once again we find you yet again embroiled in a discussion you dont seem to understand. I was under the impression that you would stop pestering me with your nonsensical crap. (If you have noticed, i dont skulking around your posts especially after that Akira Kurosawa fiasco. We agreed that you would keep your mutterings to those people who are on your level...

BTW..I highly doubt that you didnt know that QT indeed co-wrote pulp fiction (and a bunch of his other work) with Roger Avary (they actually won the oscar together) I dont see how in the hell you came up with your bullshit comments about me being a "troll".

Regardless, man get this in your head. I dont give a flippin fuck about what you have to say. (And i would assume the feeling is mutual) So for the last time dont bug me with your crap!!!!
79

I read all of this stuff and you won’t answer one question"Why are you Here?". I don’t want a to start a big arguement but tell me why?

80

[quote=“Ify”]
" it’s a matter of opinion and that’s mine. Fair enough, you don’t like Kill Bill, ok we get it. Ok, you also don’t think Tarantino is a great director, good for you. I respect your opinion.
[/quote]


Dont twist things around and start playing childish games. The comment was to the effect that you  found it hard to believe that many people do not consider Tarantino to be one of the top 10 directors. And i explained to you the very valid reasons that many do not consider him to be in that group... I am not debating your personal opinion of Tarantino. You can think of him as a god if you wish. There is nothing i can do about that nor do i wish to change your mind. (as they say, ignorance is bliss) But atleast now you have an inkling as to why others dont consider him in that group.
personally i think he is good, but definately not great. May be 20 years from now, when he has had more sucess in other genres and has perharps made similar contributions to the film world comparable to the likes of
Hitchcock, Charlie Chaplin, kubrick, Coen brothers, that freak woody allen or even Ang lee and i would argue Clint Eastwood has by far exceeded Tarantino. But for now with only a couple of films under his belt (on both sides of the screen,) its way to early for him to be considered great in film history... (not your mind)