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Budd, the good guy!

[quote] He buried her alive, but if he really wanted her to suffer, he would have shot the mace in her eyes. Again, don’t you think giving her a flashlight was a “good” act. [/quote]

I would say, if a guy buried you alive you would give a shit if it was an act of mercy, if he gave you a torch… And fuck, do you really think that is a motherfucking suffering thing, to be buried alive with or without a torch.



I would like to kill this piece of shit if I would be the Bride.

He is playing with the Brides feelling when he gave her the torch.

If he really wanted that she lives, he would talk .with her after he catched her. He never tried to talk with her, he tortured her. Fuck, she has to see how they dig the grave, she lays there and she knows what will happened and this torch thing was part of the shit there.


[quote] Yes I would. Don’t you think that Budd can just kill his boss and steal his money? He doesn’t even blink an eye of defiance when his boss is yelling at him. And don’t you also think that Budd could have stayed an assassin and been a millionaire? Instead he chooses a legitimate job.[/quote]
Where is your reference?

Where does Budd say, that he left cuz he wanted to be no assain anymore? He left cuz he has problems with his brother… He is a guy with a deep alcohol problem and he don´t fuck around with his boss, cuz he too fucking lazy.



And hey I wish you a lot of fun, meeting Budd at the parking place :wink:

[quote]


I would say, if a guy buried you alive you would give a shit if it was an act of mercy, if he gave you a torch… And fuck, do you really think that is a motherfucking suffering thing, to be buried alive with or without a torch.



I would like to kill this piece of shit if I would be the Bride.

He is playing with the Brides feelling when he gave her the torch.

If he really wanted that she lives, he would talk .with her after he catched her. He never tried to talk with her, he tortured her. Fuck, she has to see how they dig the grave, she lays there and she knows what will happened and this torch thing was part of the shit there.[/quote]
But the whole point is that he didn’t have to give her the flashlight. Giving her one was a good gesture.

[quote]
Where is your reference?

Where does Budd say, that he left cuz he wanted to be no assain anymore? He left cuz he has problems with his brother… He is a guy with a deep alcohol problem and he don´t fuck around with his boss, cuz he too fucking lazy. [/quote]
He could have been an independant assassin without Bill. Or he could have used his skills and done something else illegal. Drunk or not he’s still pretty deadly. He’d be making a hell of a lot more money than he is now.
[quote]
And hey I wish you a lot of fun, meeting Budd at the parking place  :wink:
[/quote]
:wink:

And what good would talking do? You saw what happened to Vernita.



Budd is in the position that the bride will be in Volume 3, Kill Beatrix, or whatever the next one will be called. Will she be a bad guy if she hurts but doesn’t kill Nikki?



No because the Bride was wrong and understands that Nikki deserves her revenge. She doesn’t want to kill Nikki.

What the fuck!?



This thing is turning into something bigger than it needs to be.



Filmguy, you answered my query - you have really only studied the script which is a far cry from the movie. I too don’t have the movie next to me (all in good time…)



This whole rocksalt thing is stupid. I really think you should get yourself shot at with rocksalt and see how in the mood you are to think that the shooter was being merciful. Remember one bit of dialogue:





ELLE

She must suffer to her last breath.







BUDD

That Elle darlin, I can pretty

damwell guarantee.



Is that not the words of a bad man, not a merciful man?



AND you’re little claim about how the script says he “mercifully” knocks her out with a needle…I beg to differ…it actually goes like this:



"THEN…



Almost (ALMOST) mercifully, the man once known as “Sidewinder,” sticks

a syringe in her arm, dropping her unconscious."



Sounds like that script don’t back up shit.

Yes, you are to a degree right about the arm thing, but about 99.5% of us are referrring to the movie at the cinema…



And on top of this, if you want to refer to the script, then fine…but I thought you should read this little section which does NOT make Budd a good guy:



"With the help of his cowboy boot he rolls The Bride over onto her stomach, exposing her butt.



SNAPPING the barrel closed, he takes aim and FIRES both barrels – EXECUTION STYLE – right into her keister. The Bride does the one thing she has yet to do with any opponent during the movie up till now. Her head rears back and she lets out a SCREAM!"



I really think you need to rethink things boy. or would you like me to point other things out???

If you think this is bigger than it needs to be, why are you so worked up?



I didn’t even read the entire script, let alone study it. All my theories come from the film with some references to the script to back up some of my claims. The references I’m making to the script are only references that I remember in the film.



It doesn’t matter what he tells Elle. Even if he is making her suffer, he still didn’t kill her. I still think he doesn’t want her dead.



I’m not saying that hes not a bad guy from Bea’s point of view. But we know more about him than she does. We’re the ones seeing this story objectively, not her. Of course she’s not going to think he’s merciful. But compared to everyone else who are ready to kill her, Budd chooses not to.



Are you telling me you didn’t sympathise with Budd just a little more than the other Vipers.



No one has convinced me yet that Budd is pure evil, so, go ahead, point other stuff out. I want you to convince me.

[quote]If you think this is bigger than it needs to be, why are you so worked up?[/quote]

MissMacBeth only wanna help you to see all clear and right… ;D ;D ;D

[quote] But we know more about him than she does [/quote]Yes, we know, he is a piece of shit.

Beat the shit out of a pregnant woman. Fuck him for this!

Buried the Bride alive. Again: fuck him!

[quote]Are you telling me you didn’t sympathise with Budd just a little more than the other Vipers[/quote]
Sure I sympathise with every of this group! What a hard life, oh, they have to kill people for money, beat a pregnant woman, betray, sure they need our sympathy!



hehehe, I really would like to hear what you would say, if Budd buried you alive…he, don´t worry, he is a nice guy, he would give you a torch and a newspaper, so it wouldn´t be that boring for you, … j/k

Alot of the main characters in QT’s films are never good or bad, but a mixture of both. Budd was obviously repentent when he said “we deserve to die” but even though he quit the DIVAS, he still had the heart of an assassin and his instincts took over when Beatrix tried to kill him. He didn’t straight out let Beatrix go free because then she would have came back and murdered him like the Vernita and O-Ren. Budd most likely feels sorry for himself, Beatrix, and Bill but him and his brother are the two people he cares about most. Also if he hadn’t at least tried to kill Beatrix, then she would have came after Bill also which i’m sure Budd wouldn’t have liked too much.

And I have another theory about the selling of the sword. This is the only act that I couldn’t find a good motive for. Well, I realised that there is nothing good about it. And what’s interesting is that, this being the one purely evil and selfish act he commits, its what ultimately causes his death.

[quote]
Yes, we know, he is a piece of shit.

Beat the shit out of a pregnant woman. Fuck him for this!

Buried the Bride alive. Again: fuck him![/quote]
I’m talking about Volume two when he shows remorse. I agree that he’s bad in Volume 1. In Volume two he’s not as bad. He’s given up the life. Do you think that if a film came out about Jules from Pulp Fiction you would still feel that he is a bad guy?

[quote]
Sure I sympathise with every of this group! What a hard life, oh, they have to kill people for money, beat a pregnant woman, betray, sure they need our sympathy!



hehehe, I really would like to hear what you would say, if Budd buried you alive…he, don´t worry, he is a nice guy, he would give you a torch and a newspaper, so it wouldn´t be that boring for you, … j/k [/quote]

AGAIN!!! CAN’T YOU READ!!! I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE BRIDE THINKS! I’M SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY!!

[quote]Alot of the main characters in QT’s films are never good or bad, but a mixture of both. Budd was obviously repentent when he said “we deserve to die” but even though he quit the DIVAS, he still had the heart of an assassin and his instincts took over when Beatrix tried to kill him. He didn’t straight out let Beatrix go free because then she would have came back and murdered him like the Vernita and O-Ren. Budd most likely feels sorry for himself, Beatrix, and Bill but him and his brother are the two people he cares about most. Also if he hadn’t at least tried to kill Beatrix, then she would have came after Bill also which i’m sure Budd wouldn’t have liked too much.[/quote]
Exactly. The fact that he repented makes him good.

[quote] AGAIN!!! CAN’T YOU READ!!! I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE BRIDE THINKS! I’M SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY!! [/quote]

hey, hey, hey, no reason to be agressive - like this: >:(

I mean if you can see everything objective, you can be nice and friendly - like this: :smiley:



In my opinion there is no one on earth who is only good or bad. Everyone has two sites, but again, I can´t see that kind of changing in Budds behaviour like you.

He left the group, cuz he was pissed off of Bill (of course he loves him still…)

And he is now a lazy ass, cuz he is dissapointed of Bill and is an alcoholic.

And I don´t see it with the Brides point of view, I have my own point of view.



I liked the discussion, just up till now, cuz I don´t like that you point out that you are the only one who is objective.

So I will leave the discussion right now.



You have your opinion - I have mine. I accept yours - and you have to accept mine.

I’m sorry.  :’( But everyone keeps bringing up the same points and I have to keep explaining the same thing over and over again. And you were not speaking objectively because you kept saying “How would you feel if?” That’s not objective.



Man, now I feel bad :-/



I think I’ll agree to disagree with you. Wow, you’re the only person so far to give up your arguement.



I’ll be nice and friendly again.  ;D See.



Forgive me?

[quote]
Exactly. The fact that he repented makes him good.
[/quote]

nooooooo. I also said that alot of characters in QT’s movies are neither good nor bad. Budd repented but still had the heart and soul of a killer, which he could never get rid of. None of the main characters in Kill Bill were purely good, not even Beatrix.

[quote]He is as bad as the others.

Haven´t you seen how happy he looked when he talk to the Bride after shooting her with the rocksalt. He loved her pain.

And this troch thing. IMO he lover the idea how the Bride would fight for her life under the earth.

If he really thought, that the Bride could escape, he would wait at the grave as long as it takes that she has not enough air to breath.



By the way, in an interview Davidn Carradine talked about the idae that Budd left cuz he was angry, that Bill takes him the Elle…

Maybe he has something aganst blonde chicks… = just kidding.

[/quote]

"That woman deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die. But then again, so does she."



The Bride is only the good guy of this story because she was fucked over and we’re told that she’s the good guy. Truth be told, the only way someone could get to be the head of the DIVAs would be by becoming one of the meanest, nastiest, deadliest bitches who ever lived.



Budd was probably justified in both trying to kill her the first time (even though he was evil then), and burying her alive the second time around.



It would be interesting to see some kind of prequel anime series or something that would explore the dynamics of their relationships while they were all killing for money, because I have a feeling that the pre-pregnancy Bride was just as evil as Bill or Elle Driver, and probably the only person with a conscience in the group was Budd.

Yes, I totally agree (with FilmGuy). This is also the reason why I am glad Budd wasn’t killed by Beatrix. When Beatrix kills a character, the film provides a context in which the death is smiled upon by fortune (Beatrix even tells you this directly), and, if the established context is successful, by the audience. If Bea had killed Budd, the act wouldn’t have been smiled upon since Bill is a remorseful and somewhat repentant character, and it violates the established context.



None of the characters are good in any sense of the word, but some of the characters are evil and some aren’t. For simplicity’s sake, I will refer to these characters as “Good.”



“Good” = Bea, Budd

Evil = Elle



Good Kills Evil = Good

Good Kills Good = Bad

Evil Kills Good = Good (assuming that it produces the desired effect, which is to be met with anger by the audience. Admit that you were angry as fuck at Elle as she torments him to his last agonizing breath. Wanna guess why?)

On a sidenote, I don’t believe the original script is a valid reference to prove any points. The script on the internet is a very early draft, and numerous changes were made before the final movie came out. Just look at Elle – she was originally supposed to be very similar to The Bride, but Tarantino turned her into an evil, fishhead-poisoning bitch.

[quote]Admit that you were angry as fuck at Elle as she torments him to his last agonizing breath.[/quote]
Nah, I felt some sympathy for Budd, but he kinda deserved it. What really angered me was when she said she killed Pai Mei.

[quote]Another thing, I wonder if Bill still thought Bea killed his Brother with the Mamba as Elle told him?[/quote]

Does it matter? If Elle hadn’t killed him, Bea would have - for sure.

Budd is NOT a gd guy, he shot bea with the rock salt so she was in pain AND then he tied her up and buried her alive… what a nice guy. I dont think so! he gave her a torch so she could see there was no way out (even though there was) and so she could watch herself die. If anyone O’ren is not a bad guy because she only turned to killing because she witnessed her parents getting killed. And then this brings me on to Bea. Before bill and the others fucked her up who was she working for? The deadly viper assasination squad. No gd people work for an assanastion squad. So maybe Bea is not so innocent after all

I do agree with you Filmguy - yes I do show more sympathy for Budd than the others, simply b/c of the stuff about his now crap life etc… but he still is an evil person.

I’m not a religious person but he’s broken some sins there:


  • Killing people - Wedding capel among others (And this can count for volume 2 as he too walks into the chapel w/ a gun)
  • Stealing - Not as obvious but he still steals Bea’s sword

    *Cheating - He cheats by shooting her instead of the old school sword stuff everyone else in the movies believes in (minus Vernita who cheated and got herself killed b/c of it)



    I still don’t believe that Budd had no intention of killing Bea - again, he stuck her in a bloody grave! He had no intentions of waiting for her to come out and kill him. He left her there to die in such a slow way.



    Think about it this way - if Budd just shot her square in the heart with a bullet, killing her, then (well first off there wouldn’t be a vol2) But that would be giving her a merciful in my opinion death. Now, b/c he’s being loyal (ish) to his Brother by dealing with Bea…he’s opted to make her death as horrible as possible.

    Remember when she was panicing in the coffin? Budd was hoping she’d die (after a few days) not only from being starved for food and oxygen, but also from panicing and freaking out. That would be much worse than a quick death, b/c you have to sit thru every minute waiting to die, and knowing you’re going to die.