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All style and no substance?


#1

Ok, so, first off, I’m new, so, Hi! :slight_smile:



Second, I, like most of you I’d think, was very excited to hear about a new Tarantino film. I’m not a rabid Tarantino fan like it seems most of the residents of this board are, but I do enjoy most of his stuff (I didn’t like Jackie Brown, I just never got into it, and I thought his short in Four Rooms was just ok…kinda cool, but nothing much.) I’ve always said of him, even if you don’t like his movies, you have to respect what he does. The man is amazing with dialouge and has a style all his own. So, you have to give him respect.



Now, when the screenplay for Kill Bill was “leaked” on the internet, I had it within an hour, and had read it less than two hours later. I liked the script, but hadn’t fallen in love with it like so many others I’d read. I was impressed with its mammoth length and its massive bloodletting, but after I read the script I had this feeling that I couldn’t shake. I couldn’t put a lable on it, but I think I’ve figured it out now.



With the fairly recent (to me at least) information about the genre-jumping with each successive chapter, and all the styles in this film, I started to get a fear in the back of my head saying “is this going to be one of those movies that’s cool, but all style and no substance?” See, that’s what I got from the script, I think. It was gonna be cool. Your basic revenge tale–when you get down to the root of it–immersed in a love of kung-fu flicks, spaghetti westerns, and samurai flicks, as well as many other styles. It was promising to have massive, gratuitous amounts of blood like in the 70s samurai films, and some generally damn cool scenes, but was that it? That’s what worries me.



I know that Tarantino is one of today’s great directors, and I do hope that I am wrong…and I hope to be proven wrong when I hit the theaters the day Volume 1 comes out.



That is all I wanted to say. If y’all have any comments (no flames please, though) or if any of you feel the way I do, I’d love to hear them.



Oh…and, if any of you are looking for some great smaurai films/series to see, check out www.animeigo.com, they’ve got some of the best, including Lone Wolf & Cub, Sleepy Eyes of Death, and The Razor.


#2

Kill Bill is definetely NOT gonna be like his other films, Kill Bill is gonna be an action film.



Most action films suck, but I know this is gonna kick EVERY action film’s ass three times.



And like most action films, it doesn’t have a great plot. I don’t see how Kill Bill COULD have a great plot? With a great plot where would all the action and swordfights be? They wouldn’t be there.



I KNOW i’m gonna love the movie, I have no doubt .



But I don’t see how some of the guys on this forum can say the film will be nominated for any Oscar. It’s not Oscar material at all.



Definetely MTV movie awards though. Best fight scene, best actress in lead role (Uma Thurman) best bad guy (Bill) And probably more. Cause MTV loves that kinda shit.


#3

OK, that’s just the script. So you haven’t really got the feel of the movie unless you actually saw it. Ever try to explain to a friend a joke from a sitcom you saw, but can’t, because he didn’t see it? It works like that, you won’t understand the movie unless you actually watch it. The script is just words. I can’t wait till the movie actually comes out, so we won’t have these “will kill bill suck or not?” topics. But I say we should all keep our heads up and just patiently wait for this to come out. It cannot and will not suck. This movie will kick ass. End of story.


#4

Gordon, this film may not be for you if your looking for some deep political message hidden in the film. This film is NOT Pulp Fiction 2. Pulp Fiction is dead to QT I think. Hes not the kind of artist thats going to do retreads of his earlier films. Hes pretty much a directing chameleon.



Kill Bill is a (EXPLOITATION) Revenge film. Revenge films are not supposed to be about anything other than the main character getting REVENGE. Youve seen those kinds of films before I’m sure. Plots in Revenge films are usually pretty non existant anyway. But what QT has done with his story is something thats gonna be fresh and new, I have NO doubt, it will deliver on all levels for viewers. Its also going to sort of reinvent the action/kung fu film as we know it. Push things over the line that we havent seen before.



I hope everyone who sees the film enjoys it and really has a blast watching what QT has created.


#5

pete, that’s what he said, he just expressed his first impression after he read the script!


#6

[quote]pete, that’s what he said, he just expressed his first impression after he read the script![/quote]

Seb, Im just giving my opinion on things, and I didnt even insult anybody! Pretty good huh? :slight_smile:



I forgot the Style Vs Substance thing:



Id say Kill Bill will be 50% style and 50% substance. Its definitely going to be a beautiful looking film with alot of cinematic pops n buzzers (which I love!), but I think QT is a great storyteller, thats his strongest skill actually. The difference between this film and his previous films is the level of action. Theres ALOT in this.



I’m just looking forward to having a rockin n rollin time with QTs latest creation. 8)


#7

[quote]Gordon, this film may not be for you if your looking for some deep political message hidden in the film. This film is NOT Pulp Fiction 2.  Pulp Fiction is dead to QT I think. Hes not the kind of artist thats going to do retreads of his earlier films. Hes pretty much a directing chameleon.



Kill Bill is a (EXPLOITATION)  Revenge film. Revenge films are not supposed to be about anything other than the main character getting REVENGE. Youve seen those kinds of films before I’m sure.  Plots in Revenge films are usually pretty non existant anyway. But what QT has done with his story is something thats gonna be fresh and new, I have NO doubt, it will deliver on all levels for viewers. Its also going to sort of reinvent the action/kung fu film as we know it. Push things over the line that we havent seen before.



I hope everyone who sees the film enjoys it and really has a blast watching what QT has created.

[/quote]


Oh, trust me, this movie is definately for me. I'm not looking for some deep, hidden political message, because to expect something like that in a revenge film is rediculous. And I'm in no way looking for Pulp Fiction 2. If he ever did that I'd be severely dissapointed. There's nothing worse than a director retreading old material. I am looking for, however, great characters. I've seen revenge films with them, and I've seen them without. What I was trying to express above is hoping that there's more to this flick than just one fight scene after another....basically a Tarantino action film, great action scenes, and great character scenes as well. If this film lacks the character scenes then it'd be just like watching Bad Boys 2 again. ::)

#8

[quote] If this film lacks the character scenes then it’d be just like watching Bad Boys 2 again.  ::slight_smile: [/quote]



QT would never EVER lower himself to the level of a Michael Bay. Hes a writer/director of real cinema, not a music video hack.


#9

[quote]
QT would never EVER lower himself to the level of a Michael Bay. Hes a writer/director of real cinema, not a music video hack.
[/quote]

OH, WHATEVER! Do we need to insult other movies?? Bad Boys 2 is not music video hack. That was the best movie I’ve seen this summer, and yes I saw em all so I’m not being ignorant. If Kill Bill is almost as entertaining as Bad Boys 2 I will absolutely love it. Just because I’m a rabid QT fan doesn’t mean I’m a fanboy and close-minded to other films. I’m not calling anybody a fanboy or anything, I’m just sayin. Like I said, Kill Bill will have all the substance as his other films. Has he ever written a movie that lacked substance? Besides the second half of From Dusk Till Dawn, I’d say his movies lack nothing.


#10

Lets not forget as much as I liked the script, it was a pretty early draft. I’m pretty sure the final shooting version was even better again with some of those monologues Quent’s great at writing. Then again, I don’t want retreads of his past glories so if he can strike a balance of the style of Pulp Fiction and substance of Jackie Brown in an action/revenge setting then it should be impressive.


#11

Dead Nigga: Michael Bay is DEFINITELY a music video HACK!!! I’m serious about that. Look at his fuckin movies!! Theyre empty high concept shit! Dont even start comparing Bad Boys 2 (shit) to Kill Bill or I’m gonna have to get medieval on your ass.



Dont get me started.



You can call me a QT fanboy or whatever you want. I dont care, in fact, I’m proud to be a “QT fan boy”.


#12

The medium of film is, above all, about entertaining its audiance. That is how it began, and that is how it should be.



I read the kill bill script like most of us here. While i found the plot nothing special, or no truly bad ass dialoug, it somehow managed to entertain me - to keep me reading diligently - for its 200 million plus pages. Why?



Caus’ this movie is about entertainment. It has an energy and a geniuine abililty to keep us interested. The coolness of the scenes, the locations, and many of the moments in the script almost transcend what you would call “style” and become a sort of substance. This is a purely visual movie and, this time, QT is trying to tell his story more through pictures rather than through words.


#13

[quote] This is a purely visual movie and, this time, QT is trying to tell his story more through pictures rather than through words.[/quote]

And theres nothing wrong with that at all. Cinema was originally about telling a story thru visuals anyway. I’m glad QT is going that route this time and giving the prose heavy style a rest. Hes just mixing it up, and doing something new. Thats great.


#14

Dude, I didn’t call you a fanboy, I just implied it! :wink: joke. *cough



I’m not comparing Kill Bill to bad boys 2 at all. gordansoop did. Anyway, I’m not exactly in love with Michael Bay’s movies either, I’m just saying I liked Bad Boys 2. That’s the only one I really liked. Don’t get me wrong. I thought you said Bad Boys 2 was music video hack. I didn’t know you meant Micheal Bay in general. But you can’t deny Bad Boys 2 was the most entertanining summer movie, right with Pirates of the Carribean. By the way Toothpick, misunderstanding or not, please don’t act like your opinion is better than everyone else’s. It’s kind of annoying. That’s all. To end on a positive note, KILL WILL BILL RULE!


#15

[quote] But you can’t deny Bad Boys 2 was the most entertanining summer movie, right with Pirates of the Carribean. [/quote]

BB2 was the most entertaining film of the summer next to POTC? I would never pay to see that heap of shit! I saw Pirates of the Carribean and I had alot of fun. But I made a vow I will NEVER pay to see a Michael Bay movie. If you thought BB2 was an entertaining film, thats fine. To me, his movies are mindless shit. Bay needs to learn that its 2003, not 1990. Don Simpson is dead. Its time to put some soul into your movies. And by soul I’m not talkin Will Smith and Marty Mar!



(Imagine what QT could do with the kind of $$$ Bruckheimer dishes out to that hack Bay)



AND YES, KILL BILL WILL INDEED ROCK THE MUFUGGIN HIZZOUSE! :slight_smile:


#16

Ah-hah, so you didn’t even see Bad Boys 2! Well, so you really can’t say it’s slop then. I understand your hate for Michael Bay, but you didn’t even see BB2 so you really can’t say it’s bad or not. I don’t know, it’s a “don’t judge a book by its cover” kind of thing. Well, I get it you hate Michael Bay, but don’t trash a movie you haven’t even seen in defense of another movie (Kill Bill) you haven’t even seen. It’s kind of illogical.


#17

that is true, DNS. I guess no one that didn’t see the movie can’t really say anything…



but…BB2?


#18

in any other case i would agree with dead nigga storage, but it’s michael bay. it has to be bad. he turns good plots into shitty shit. also he’s a jerk. my friend is his nephiew or something and says that he’s a total ass-hole, so fuck his movies. sorry, i got a little off topic.


#19

Well I don’t exactly like Michael Bay either, but I was just saying I really enjoyed Bad Boys 2, despite it being a Michael Bay movie.


#20

i understand. some of my friends said it was really good for an action movie. i didn’t see it but i doubt that i’d hate it. it was probobly pretty good.