The Obama Deception - MARCH 15TH

That is trippy lookin.

The only thing I’m really interested in is the governments stance on art funding. I’m with redford on that.

But, you’re Canadian.

[quote=“Geoi”]
But, you’re Canadian.
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I’m interested, I don’t really have a stake in it, not yet. But I’m gonna have to leave canada soon if I wanna make it in the world of bright lights and big budgets.



And I like how that fact keeps popping up between us. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ever been to the Toronto Film Fest? They say it’s the Cannes of the western world. I wanna go someday.

[quote=“Geoi”]
Ever been to the Toronto Film Fest? They say it’s the Cannes of the western world. I wanna go someday.
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I did an internship for last years fest for a small PR company that represented a few smaller films entered in the fest, so I got to hang out in the hotel where they do all the interviews, saw a couple ppl from afar, mostly got coffee etc and I still had to pay for my own tickets lol. It’s no cannes though, I’m sure of that.

[quote=“Geoi”]
Angel, no offense mate, but I get the impression that you are deluding opposing facts, with what facts you’ve been allowed to know. I mean, you seem to think you know that what Alex Jones has to say is false. If you want to watch a documentary about what you “know”, then I guess you would like Moore.
[/quote]

Not really. As has been touched on earlier, Errol Morris may make documentaries that are not necessarily easy to get through but are definitely powerful. Hey, I don’t believe in the moon landing. Seriously, I don’t. I don’t believe in global warming either. I am not saying what I am saying about Alex Jones because I think he’s a lunatic. I just saw one of his documentaries where he yelled in voice-over about what happened and then a third of the film was footage of him being interviewed about his theories on national television. It just looked desperate. Who backs their own testimony up with yet more testimony from their own mouth? It’s just lazy. Well, there was some footage of Charlie Sheen as well, but who the fuck cares what Charlie Sheen has to say nowadays anyway? What exactly is he an authority on? Hookers?



And stop with the “go back to Michael Moore” references. I have never once said I watch Michael Moore. In fact, Fahrenheit 9/11 getting the Palme D’Or was one of the biggest mistakes that Cannes has ever made in my opinion.

[quote=“Dex”]
Angel. I know you’re not an American so somebody talking about our rights being stripped away and our way of life being perverted probly doesn’t mean much to you, so I don’t expect you to dig deeper than the surface.
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As much as I hate to admit it, what happens in the USA does have a bearing on pretty much the whole world in some way. And my ramblings against Alex Jones have nothing to do with the legitimacy of his theories. He is just a shoddy filmmaker. Maybe if he was more clinical and organised, I would admire him. So please don’t direct your attacks at my unwillingness to believe that 9/11 was an inside job or my inability to research for myself. My problem lies with Jones’ half-arsed methods. You have assumed that I have a problem with what he is saying. Not at all. There is not very much that I believe to a definite degree. For all I know, he may be right. But I am a film geek and I find his documentaries clumsy. He’s not a filmmaker. And no, it’s not about being pretty. Documentary has form. The greatest films and the greatest documentaries are applauded for their understanding of technique and form. And what I think is that Jones doesn’t really understand effective technique. The only people who agree with his documentaries are those who already believe what he is saying. You think Obama is a crook? Then have fun. You’ll love this new documentary.



Anyway, I am sorry I offended you guys. I just think you both are angry about Obama winning the election and will happily jump on any bandwagon that seeks to debunk him. In American political terms, I am a Republican. So, I am not jumping with joy about Obama either. But at least Hillary Clinton didn’t win. And McCain seemed kind of alright (except that he was like Democrat in Republican clothing), until Palin.



But hey, look at Australia. I voted for Howard again, but the rest of the fucking stupid generation Y voted for Rudd so that he could ratify the ridiculous Kyoto protocol and propose a plan to censor the internet in Australia. No one’s getting what they want.

[quote=“Dex”]
How do you deny that he works for wall street? A lot of the same people that have meticulously destroyed our economy have been given jobs in the white house. His cabinet are the people who have gotten rich off of destroying our economy. Those who haven’t gotten white house jobs are still running our banks, and Obama’s trying to give them another bailout. $850 billion this time.
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Hey, I agree. Bailouts are wrong. I am a believer in capitalism and I believe that it is self-cleansing. The weak are eliminated and the strong survive. I wish the government would have absolutely nothing at all to do with private industry. They are just fucking with the beauty of capitalism. The economic crisis may seem bad now. But ultimately, it will be good.

[quote=“Dex”]
the FACT that Obama said we need a Nation Wide “Civilian Military”. He’s not just looking to impose a draft he’s trying to militarize any American citizen between the ages of 18 and 35.





Regardless of where you’re from or what you’re mental capacity is the notion that what Alex Jones says isn’t true because you’re not willing to do the research is absolutely absurd.
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a draft, right… haha. i wanna see that happen :slight_smile:



this alex jones guy is just doing what all the other youtube propaganda people are doing too, left or right, take material that’s out there (facts?) and reassemble and process it in a way to fit their opinion/agenda/etc…



i’m not saying right or wrong here, coz obviously i have better things to do than fact-check on youtube clips, but all these alarmist, conspiracy-loving people out there, no matter how much you can decry the mainstream and the “establishment”, they’re in many cases one thing probably not: serious and professional researchers

You’re right, Seb. Both sides do utilize existing information and present it in whatever way works best for their own agendas. However, I really feel that all the information that is out there about Obama, all the negative facts that never get publicized, should be presented in a proper format, such as a documentary.



So you think Alex Jones is all hype, a hack, or whatever. Okay. Who would you guys suggest do a documentary on this particular subject? Who is qualified enough? Who do you think is legit enough to document this all this information? Maybe no one? Maybe there’s not so much opposition to Jones doing this, as there is opposition to the source material itself? I think certain people just don’t want anyone to shed any negative light on Obama. Even if it is the truth.



You wanna talk about propaganda, it’s to the point now that anyone that expresses any Obama disapproval is referred to as a nutcase, or an extremist. He can do no wrong in the eyes of so many people here, and that is more than a little unsettling to me. The whole world is becoming less and less free-thinking with every generation. Just turning into sheep. A bunch of followers that can’t be arsed to even question their leaders.

[quote=“Geoi”]
You’re right, Seb. Both sides do utilize existing information and present it in whatever way works best for their own agendas. However, I really feel that all the information that is out there about Obama, all the negative facts that never get publicized, should be presented in a proper format, such as a documentary.



So you think Alex Jones is all hype, a hack, or whatever. Okay. Who would you guys suggest do a documentary on this particular subject? Who is qualified enough? Who do you think is legit enough to document this all this information? Maybe no one? Maybe there’s not so much opposition to Jones doing this, as there is opposition to the source material itself? I think certain people just don’t want anyone to shed any negative light on Obama. Even if it is the truth.



You wanna talk about propaganda, it’s to the point now that anyone that expresses any Obama disapproval is referred to as a nutcase, or an extremist. He can do no wrong in the eyes of so many people here, and that is more than a little unsettling to me. The whole world is becoming less and less free-thinking with every generation. Just turning into sheep. A bunch of followers that can’t be arsed to even question their leaders.
[/quote]

As far as I know, Obama is the fucking anti-Christ. It actually wouldn’t surprise me. My bias lies with Alex Jones’ sloppy techniques. He is a radio host and it shows in his documentaries. I didn’t want this turn into some big political argument. But this is a film forum and I think criticism directed towards Jones’ amateurish filmmaking techniques is warranted.



What pissed me off the most about him is that it is not like what he is proposing is unrealistic or purely conspiratorial. I just think the way he goes about it will in most cases cement in the viewer’s mind that these are conspiracy theories and Jones is a nutjob. He just has a way of sucking the legitimacy out of any of his possible theories. He’s like the anti-documentarian.

Thank you. I get what you meant. I’m still wondering though, who would be a good person for a project like this?

[quote=“Geoi”]
Thank you. I get what you meant. I’m still wondering though, who would be a good person for a project like this?
[/quote]

No idea. They need to both believe what they are broadcasting to the audience and be able to step back from the subject and put in the research that is really needed to bring credit to what they are saying.



Mentioning Errol Morris again. In the case of Thin Blue Line, he was saving a guy’s life there. That film is seriously powerful. It is no bullshit investigative journalism. Why can’t there be filmmakers delving into these topics with as much passion as that, as if a man’s life hangs in the balance. Is our freedom and basic civil rights not worth the effort?



I guess maybe Jones’ idea is to get people thinking, maybe I am being too harsh on him. I just wish he’d give people more to think about. They aren’t going to put in the research unless you really motivate them.

Alex Jones comes off as an amature because he is. Like you said, he’s a radio broadcaster. He makes documentaries in his free time. His budget consists of his bank account and donations and when the film is done he doesn’t charge a penny. The only time he charges is if you want a dvd and he only charges enough to get his money back.



The reason professionals don’t tackle these subjects is because this is what they do for a living. If they go after how corrupt the money makers are it could make it harder for them to make money to make there next film. That and so few people are willing to believe the truth. No matter how you present the facts mainstream media is gonna call you an un-American Psycho for saying it.



I remember a few years back when Charlie Sheen came out saying 9/11 was an inside job. He stated a ton of facts and even supported a lot of them with references but the media’s only response was “Charlie Sheen used to be a bad boy, he used to do drugs”. I get that Sheen’s just an actor but if you’re gonna run the story why would you so blindly ignore the facts he presented and just turn it into a slam piece? Because most people don’t want to accept the truth. Hell, they’re still spending millions of dollars to produce TV shows that cover up the truth about 9/11.



Yeah, Alex Jones isn’t perfect. He puts too much of his opinion in his films, he rants way too much, and his movies can be long winded and unfocused at times but the man isn’t trying to win awards and he tackles subject matter most others won’t even do the research on. He’s trying to wake people up to the things that are happening to them. Him and his people were predicting and warning of this crisis years ago. To ignore his words and his facts because he isn’t a slick professional film maker or you don’t like him is kind of silly.



I don’t know of true documentarian that would touch Obama at least not until it’s already a popular opinion. Michael Moore might pretend to, but we all know he doesn’t really want things to get better. What would he complain about then? Erroll Morris won’t because he’s made the majority of his money doing commercials for the corporations that Alex Jones is trying to expose so apparently he’s cool with it.

[quote=“Dex”]
To ignore his words and his facts because he isn’t a slick professional film maker or you don’t like him is kind of silly.
[/quote]

I just think he is unnecessary. I refuse to watch his films just so I can be bombarded with political opinion. I can do my own research. I don’t ask for slick or pretty (when I say he has sloppy form I am referring to focus and structure not theatrics), I just get nothing from his films. The internet is full of raving opinions about 9/11. The only reason for me to watch documentaries is to counter those opinions with an intelligent factual discussion.



I really couldn’t give a shit about the politics of the situation. Whilst I do believe in films that make an audience think, I don’t see the point in watching a documentary for a big download of information. I can read books for that. I just require something more in my documentaries. I know you are saying that we need people like him to enlighten us with an alternative viewpoint, but I don’t see the point when everyone just thinks he is a nutjob anyway. I think that works against it actually. I don’t think it’s really helping.



But let’s just agree to disagree. I honestly think if Jones didn’t make so many documentaries and instead spent more time bringing focus and fact to a select few, it would be far more productive. It isn’t an issue of money or inexperience necessarily, he’s just not thinking it through. He is capable of making something that will change opinions. I just wish he would.

[quote=“Angel”]
Alex Jones is a fucking douchebag, that’s what he is.



The Alex Jones documentaries that I have seen consist of him telling you how it is and backing it up only with videotaped interviews of himself or similarly insubstantial “evidence”. He feels that if he yells charismatically at you for an hour and a half that you will eventually just believe everything he says. I require more proof.



BTW: Errol Morris kicks both their arses.
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what you talkin about Wyllis?