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Re: The Roger Avary Credit controversy

ToothPick, your a fucking ignorant bastard…when anyone makes fun of your BOYFRIEND TARANTINO (hey, I love Tarantino…but ToothPick seems to just agree with him on EVERY point, I bet if Tarantino said, “Gays rule!” Toothpick would do the same 5 min later on the forum)



Point is, Tarantino COULDN’T HAVE DONE PULP FICTION W/ OUT AVARY YOU FUCKING NINNY!



THEY WROTE IT TOGETHER IN AMSTERDAM WHILE BLUNTED OUTTA THERE MINDS.



They took scens, rewrote, added shit, and put it into one script - PULP FICTION.



You act like u knwo all this shit ToothPick, but obviosuly you don’t, otherwise you wouldn’t of said what you said about Tarantino not owing anything to Avary.



Yeah, I think Avary’s movies suck too, but he’s got good fucking ideas…Tarantino helped him get the stories straight.



I eagerly await your contradicting response

[quote]




+1[/quote]

WHAT THE FUCK DOES PLUS ONE MEAN??? AGGLJLJSLFJHLDFLKJSD!!!



Oh yeah, and the only Avary movie i’ve seen is Killing Zoe, and it sucked shit. It was awful. Plus, the girl in it has pointy ass nipples. uugh… That movie had nothing cool about it, except that stoltz still looked like jesus.

This is exactly how I read the Avary thing. (this is not to hurt the feelings of Avary fans or project the illusion that I know what I’m Talking about, Just opinions)

  1. Why he worked with Roger - I think that QT being considered a failure early on in life and everyone around him (besides his mother) were hacks or failures, kinda wore on him because he always knew what he loved and his talent. Once he got a little standing in hollywood and realized he could to great things he started working with Avary in order to share his success with someone. He wanted to have someone to celebrate with because I think he saw his mom being successfull but she was always looking for someone to celebrate that success (husbands).
  2. Why he “Took” Avary’s Ideas - He just wanted to work with someone and he had so much material (all his life is used as material - he takes so much from whats around him so as not to sound fake or detached) with the material he needed wanted an outlet to express it and he saw Avary had a short screenplay with decent ideas so Qt figured he would jazz it up (he was no stanger to re-writes).
  3. Why he “took” credit from Avary - Well lets see QT was Avary’s BEST FRIEND. If Avary had such a big part of a screenplay then QT would have credited him but QT is fair but intelligent. He isn’t going to take equal billing for something he did the majority of work on.
  4. ROGER AVARY My take - Mr. Avary is a talented man and a good man. He was QT’s best friend and has a vast knowledge of movies and how to make them. He is talented but not this talented as the material he lays claim to. If he was a so integral part of all the QT movies then why arent studios clamoring to get their hands on his stuff? Simple because Avary laid the story QT made the movie. I think this is why the 3rd movie was an adaptation of a novel because story is only one part of QT’s movie and he knows that. When crafting a story himself it took a lot of thinking - Kill Bill. He knows and we know the people would rather have a QT movie based on a book or another person’s story every 2 years than a completely original movie every 4. Roger Avary is talented but he comes off sounding like the jealous friend. We all do it, we like to see people get success, just not a ton of success.

    SUMMARY = Roger stop player hating

yeah and rules of attraction sucked!

Roger got the credit he deserved for Pulp. A story credit. If you read the script excerpt of Pandemonium Reigns on his site you’ll see all he wrote was the story. Quentin changed it quite a bit and the only dialogue that’s the same is “Nobody kills anybody in my shop except me” and “Is my bike alright?” “Is it Tuesday?” He got the credit he deserved for Dogs. The only question is Natural Born Killers and True Romance. But I think Natural Born Killers is stupid cause Quentin only got a story credit. So you can’t have a story for the story credit, lol. Although I guess it is pretty verbatim in the film. I’m interested in seeing when Avary posts the True Romance scripts on his site.

I think all the sceptics who said QT is nothing without Avary had no choice but to shut their filthy mouths after “Kill Bill” came out.



So Avary came up with the magic bullets and the shot hostage? So what? I come up with lots of stuff in my head, but that doesn’t mean I have the ability to incorporate everything into a kick-ass screenplay, which QT brilliantly did. QT shared his Oscar with Avary; honestly I’d be pissed off if I was QT not the other way round!



And in case you don’t know, let me remind you the promotional tagline Avary used for “Rules of Attractions”: FROM THE CORRUPT MINDS THAT BROUGHT YOU “AMERICAN PSYCHO” AND PULP FICTION.Isn’t that hilarious or what?

Avary sucks like Ive said through this whole thread.



QT wrote what we know as PULP FICTION. QT bought Avarys Pandemonium Reigns story to adapt into his Gold Watch chapter. Thats it. QT wrote all of Pulp Fiction’s dialogue, he also directed it all.



QT wrote during that 6 years between Jackie Brown and Kill Bill. And, sorry folks, Avary wasnt a part of those scripts either.



Avary can go suck a donkeys sack.

Toothpick, I don’t fucking understand you. Why do you have so much beef with Avary? Just because him and Tarantino aren’t friends you feel the need to disrepect him? From what I’ve read their friendship break up was mutual and full of respect. And Avary gave some of the most memorable situations to Pulp Fiction. You have to admit, that without Avary, we wouldn’t have so much greatness in Pulp.

I’m going to withhold total judgement on wether or not QT is capable of writing a magnificent screenplay entirely by himself until I see Inglorious Bastards, myself. Sure, he hasn’t written anything with Avary in a long, long time, but that doesn’t mean much. Jackie Brown was based off of already existing material and Kill Bill is far from an Elizabethan work of art in terms of the story/dialogue.



Hopefully IB will have more of that “Tarantino dialogue”, though.

[quote]I’m going to withhold total judgement on wether or not QT is capable of writing a magnificent screenplay entirely by himself until I see Inglorious Bastards, myself.[/quote]

Thats the biggest load of SHIT Ive heard. You actually think QT cant write a great screenplay without fuckin Avarys input? LOL. Kill Bills script was nothing short of brilliant.



Ill wait for Avary to write a screenplay as good as any of QTs own work, then Ill come back and apologize for being such a prick. (dont hold your breath)



Kentucky Fried, you can believe whatever you want. I dont think Avary is even worthy to be associated with QT. Avary needs to put up or shut up. Plain and simple.

[quote]


Thats the biggest load of SHIT Ive heard. You actually think QT cant write a great screenplay without fuckin Avarys input? LOL. Kill Bills script was nothing short of brilliant.

[/quote]

I never said QT couldn’t write a great script without Avary’s input. I acknowledged Jackie Brown as a great script. YOU were the one to put those words into my mouth. And, sorry, but the Kill Bill script is NOT the masterpiece you make it out to be. Yeah, the movie is great - its his best movie from a directorial standpoint to date - but the story is nothing to start sucking his dick over.



I still stand by what I say. A bunch of old movie references and one dimensional characters are simply NOT comparable to the likes of those in Jackie, Pulp, and Dogs from a writing viewpoint. QT has still yet to write a truly great screenplay without someone else’s input/stories.

True that.

But don’t bother talking intelligently with Toothpick, he just takes it as you disrespect Tarantino and that you don’t like him.

Isn’t the screenplay for “Reservoir Dogs” enough for you? All Avary wrote in that movie was the radio dialogue which could have been easily been written by a 10 year old prick. I don’t want to specifically comment on Pulp cause I don’t have an exact idea of Avary’s contribution, however limited it may be, but Dogs is a vivid enough proof. Your scepticism disgusts me.

[quote] Your scepticism disgusts me.[/quote]

Me too man.



Puck: Kill Bill isnt even finished yet ya nitwit. You just want Pulp Fiction 2, if its not exactly that, its not enough. QTs movies are ALL full of references. Just because Kill Bill Vol 1 doesnt have people sitting at a table talking to each other in long monologues means its not as good? Yeah, right.



“QT has yet to write a great script without someone elses input”



100% BULLSHIT. Are you Avary’s buddy or somethin?



FYI: ALL writers are sponges. They get ideas from things theyve seen, their own lives, from music, EVERYTHING. Thats how stories get written. QT is a great writer. Thats all that I care about.



Inglorious Bastards will have more QT style dialogue, then youll stop whining like a bitch Im sure.



Holy fuckin ignorance Batman.

[quote]


Me too man.



Puck: Kill Bill isnt even finished yet ya nitwit. You just want Pulp Fiction 2, if its not exactly that, its not enough. QTs movies are ALL full of references. Just because Kill Bill Vol 1 doesnt have people sitting at a table talking to each other in long monologues means its not as good? Yeah, right.



“QT has yet to write a great script without someone elses input”



100% BULLSHIT. Are you Avary’s buddy or somethin?



FYI: ALL writers are sponges. They get ideas from things theyve seen, their own lives, from music, EVERYTHING. Thats how stories get written. QT is a great writer. Thats all that I care about.



Inglorious Bastards will have more QT style dialogue, then youll stop whining like a bitch Im sure.



Holy fuckin ignorance Batman.










[/quote]

[sarcasm] Yeah. Kill Bill was the greatest script ever. Reservoir what? Pulp What? Jackie what? Yeah a homage to Kung Fu movies blows all of those OTHER scripts away. KB is truly his crowning achievement. [/sarcasm]



::slight_smile:



Jesus Christ. I thought Kill Bill was great, but people like you that jump all up my ass every time I suggest that maybe, JUST MAYBE, its not the pinnacle of QT’s career as an artist really make me want to hate it.

What I really think of Kill Bill



first of all, Kill Bill is most definetely NOT his best script. Pulp Fiction is, why? Because its the most original, new, great, ect. Kill Bill hardly NEEDS a script, the film is mostly visuals. Its an action movie. Don’t go off saying, "No, no, its a REVENGE movie.- " shut the fuck…yeah, it deals with revenge, but its an ACTION MOVIE



Now, have you noticed that Kill Bill really isn’t THAT great of a movie to the public eye as Pulp was? Why is that? Its beccause when Pulp came out it was the newest thing, no one had seen this before. It WAS something to talk about.



Now comes Kill Bill…umm…hello? This movie would’ve made more impact if it’d been made 6 years earlier. Why is that? Because there’s nothing but these type of movies coming out! There’s nothing BUT movies like Kill Bill coming out…(movies that deal with LITTLE plot but have LOTS of action) Once Upon a Time in MExico, The Matrix 2 & 3



So it just seemed like QT was a little late with Kill Bill. Just seemed like it was HIS turn to give a shot at an action movie.



And then he calls it an Epic? THis movie doesn’t HAVE an “epic” feel to it, sorry. Epics tend to have more plot and deep characters, not pure action. THis movie is def not an epic.



Now I ain’t dissing Kill Bill, I love the movie. ITs one of my favorites. I’m just saying…



I don’t see how Kill Bill is his best script. Pulp Fiction is, and Roger Avary contributed with his rightfulyl credited “stories” Without his stories we wouldn’t have the whole premise of “The Gold Watch” the magic bullets, accidently shooting Marvin. And in my opinion, those are MY favorite scenes. And also some of the most famous.

Watch out. Toothpick’s just going to accuse you of “wanting Pulp Fiction 2” and failing to adjust to his “growth as an artist.” Damn personal opinion and respectable debate, you’re just a Avary/Guy Ritchie ass kisser. ::slight_smile:

Allow me to switch my own sarcasm detector please.





“I wanna thank Roger Avary from the bottom of my heart. Without his precious input, Pulp Fiction would have been shit. I could have cared less about Jules’ and Vincent’s speeches, the mysterious briefcase, the Jack Rabbit Slims scene, the soundtrack, and the way the story is told. The true highlight of PF was that Avary_is_god (this is a ripoff of another nick of which I’m sorry) came up with the concept of the magic bullets. That guy’s a true genius. Without his brief K-Billy radio dialogue, Reservoir Dogs would be total shit. The K-billy dialogue made RD what it is today; just admit it you QT ass-lickers! Oh, and Jackie Brown sucked ass because QT did it without Avary. Rules of Attraction was 100 times better you ignorant fuckers!! What the fuck is wrong with you? Just acknowledge Roger’s genius for once; he’ll one day make a kung-fu flick starring James Van Der Beek that would blow Kill Bill out of the water!”

about the whole “accidental shooting” and “magic bullets” scenes. they are great scenes but it is the dialouge that makes it so funny. and the direction. and the actors. someone could have half-assed some other idea but if QT wrote the dialouge, directed it, and had the capable actors it would be hilarious.