that was the beauty of 300 - it really painted a black and white picture of good and evil, something that isn’t done very often anymore in todays uber-sensitive political correctness ridden society. If you take it serious it’s offensive and wrong, if you take it as a piece of entertainment it’s OK. And any kind of accuracy wasn’t what 300 was going for, if they were they wouldn’t have included tall monsters, which we all know didn’t exist, lol.
As an Austrian and a German you should probably be offended by dozens of american movies that display germans as evil and Nazis as animals with no human traits. Even the serious ones, like Saving Private Ryan, paint a black and white picture. Here it is much more serious, because it is not done for entertainment purpose at all. I will not forgive Spielberg for this movie. And generally I hate it when filmmakers toy with emotions using a real-life fact or historical event.
[quote=“Crazy Kenneth”]
that was the beauty of 300 - it really painted a black and white picture of good and evil, something that isn’t done very often anymore in todays uber-sensitive political correctness ridden society. If you take it serious it’s offensive and wrong, if you take it as a piece of entertainment it’s OK. And any kind of accuracy wasn’t what 300 was going for, if they were they wouldn’t have included tall monsters, which we all know didn’t exist, lol.
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I understand what you’re saying. Being extremely politically correct is basically a way of saying that you are not an interesting person with no unique feelings. I hate it as well.
But, my point was that there are going to be segments of society that will be offended by these movies, with legitimate reasons. They cannot take it as entertainment because these groups are used to being misunderstood to an extreme degree, and find further movement in that direction to be extremely offensive as it furthers that idea or even stereotype. While I agree on specific details, ie. we know giant monsters don’t exist, the overall feeling is one a negativity, and that negativity is based on that persons culture and “country”. Therefore, you can’t expect them not to intellectualize these movies, because they’re not even going to have a chance to see the entertainment value anyway, and they’ve been dealing with negativity based on their ethnicity already. It’s just another straw for many people.
I find many American movies about war offensive, but mostly to the viewers brain. You can rarely take anything in them seriously. I just tend to completely avoid them.
[quote=“Crazy Kenneth”]
As an Austrian and a German you should probably be offended by dozens of american movies that display germans as evil and Nazis as animals with no human traits. Even the serious ones, like Saving Private Ryan, paint a black and white picture. Here it is much more serious, because it is not done for entertainment purpose at all. I will not forgive Spielberg for this movie. And generally I hate it when filmmakers toy with emotions using a real-life fact or historical event.
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What about Schindlers List? That was based on a true story. Its not like Spielberg wasnt telling the fuckin truth with it. That stuff happened pretty much EXACTLY as he portrayed it.
Sorry, but the Nazis WERE evil fuckers. I mean, hasnt that been well established? Any group of people that support killing millions of innocent people are evil in my book.
Are we actually having this conversation? We’re actually debating that Nazis werent evil? Of course everyone has a good and bad side to their personality, but Nazis = Evil. Im sure devil worshippers have their softer sides too, but CMON!!!
Let me put it this way: What did the Nazis do that was good? (LMAO)
Pete is right. It’s a fact, just like how all Americans who took part in the Vietnam war were rapists.
[quote=“Hung Fist”]
Pete is right. It’s a fact, just like how all Americans who took part in the Vietnam war were rapists.
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Well being a Nazi meant you supported Hitler right? And by supporting Hitler you basically agreed to his murdering innocent people right? Hmmm, could that make you evil and bad? Mayyyybe.
In my lifetime I’ve never been taught that anyone associated with the Nazi party were good, sympathetic people (besides Oskar Schindler). It must be that American brainwashing.
Nazis and the SS will forever be Evil Fucks to me. Until someone rewrites history and convinces me otherwise.
Where are the movies and documentaries about all the “Nazis with hearts of gold”? LOL! Are you kidding me?
If I offended you by this incredible prejudice on my part. OH WELL. I guess you’ll just have to deal with that. 
Offended me? No, I’m not offended that easily, my friend. I was just having a lot of fun reading this thread.
I wasnt talking to you directly HF. I was talking to any of the Nazi sympathizers who were offended by Steven Spielberg’s misguided, unfair portrayals of them in his films.
LMAO!
Schindler’s list is a lot different from Saving Private Ryan, and I personally prefer it.
Being a Nazi meant being part of a political party. Pretty much everybody at this point in history of the german and austrian population was a member of the Nazi party. Teachers, lawyers, doctors, fuckin EVERYBODY. People like you and me, at a different point in history. normal people. good people. misguided people. Saying all Nazis were evil soulless creatures doesn’t make any sense.
[quote=“Crazy Kenneth”]
Schindler’s list is a lot different from Saving Private Ryan, and I personally prefer it.
Being a Nazi meant being part of a political party. Pretty much everybody at this point in history of the german and austrian population was a member of the Nazi party. Teachers, lawyers, doctors, fuckin EVERYBODY. People like you and me, at a different point in history. normal people. good people. misguided people. Saying all Nazis were evil soulless creatures doesn’t make any sense.
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To quote Kim: Oddly enough, I actually understood that.
But as an overall idea and movement I still think they were evil and history has proven they were. Thats what I’m getting at. I do agree that the people who were swept up in it, werent totally evil, Im talkin about the Nazi Nazis. The Big Cheeses. The guys who were driving it and planning the bad stuff that went down.
Yeah sure, they were the real “bad guys”, so to speak. and the idea and ideology of course was terribly wrong, despicable and evil.
Referring to any single human being as evil is ridiculous. The things that all humans are capable off is beyond imagination. There are so many things that humans of all backgrounds have done that could be perceived as evil, but that misses the point. There is an almost natural cruelty and hatred in human behavior that if pushed out will result in a otherwise sane person doing unimaginable things. Psychological studies have shown this again and again. To believe otherwise is to really live in a fantasy world. In society with set norms and taboos humans can function “normally” but when that understanding is changed, or the taboos lifted, it can “change” the people as well. People say to kill once removes the taboo, and killing again is no longer a “big deal”. It’s incredibly sad but true.
This is so off topic, but it relates to what I said earlier. The Nazi’s worked by slowly normalizing certain behaviors. Hitler didn’t come out and tell the masses immediately that he wanted to exterminate the Jews. To my knowledge it was never actual even spoken to the German public (though many likely knew to a degree after a while). Regardless, he gradually introduced the notion of what Nazi’s stood for, until he had created a new idea of what being a Jewish person was and what being Jewish should mean to Germans. Gradual acceptance is the thing you should fear. That is why Persian people get offended by 300. The film is directing viewers who rarely know anything about the actual people, into gradually coming to a understanding that there is something wrong with these people. Unlike the Nazi’s, there is not one sole force trying to achieve this, but it has become a cultural understanding. You need people to speak out about these things to keep them in check, and keep some norms and guidelines for a society. Some things HAVE to be taboo, so that we feel ashamed in participating in them, in this case, racism.
There is a difference though between 300 and schindlers list…
In 300 It were the Persians, because in that time they were a threat to other societies. But the way it is executed they might as well be Martians…It had nothing to do with reality. It was just an excuse for moviecoolness in a stylistic and mythical form.
With Schindler;s list it’s different, since Spielberg is basing his movie on facts and is trying to give an interpretation.
I think that part of the message of SL is that Germans aren’t all nazi scum, but also can be people like Oscar Schindler who did his best to make the best of the situation he was in. While the message is clear, it is also relying a bit on treating the audience as people who would think that all Germans are nazi scum…
I ain’t saying this as a fact, but I can see how you could feel a bit manipulated and/ or feeling like being treated like a moron, who only thinks in stereotypes. I like to think of it as a beautiful story of heroism in very very very difficult times.
[quote=“Seth_Gecko”]
There is a difference though between 300 and schindlers list…
In 300 It were the Persians, because in that time they were a threat to other societies. But the way it is executed they might as well be Martians…It had nothing to do with reality. It was just an excuse for moviecoolness in a stylistic and mythical form.
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I agree with you. BUT, I see it differently. Some people may look at it and see it as so over-the-top that it can’t possible compare to the real civilization. But, it’s not about specifics, its about overriding feelings. For example, my friend. She is used to people looking at her and her home country as backward and “wrong” in some way. For her, this movie simply made a caricature of those perceptions. Yes they are over the top, both sides were. But if we were to tone them down we would still see two civilizations at war, and one would still be the Persians, scarred with their tyranny leader and orgies, and the whiter, more noble, brave Europeans.
What one person views as movie coolness, another looks at as another strike amongst a long list of strikes against their culture and the perception of them within outsider societies. It’s not as if Middle Eastern culture is deeply understood in places like the United States, so serving this horrendous mess up is really adding fuel to the fire, but it’s the worst kind of fuel. It’s so “cool” that it’s almost subliminal.
It’s kinda sad though that anyone would take 300 seriously. In that way it perfectly fits in this topic. Why make more out of 300 than it obviously is? It seems like you can’t make any movie which is a bit over the top without people getting a bit offended. I don’t know if that means that movies like 300 shouldn’t be made at all. I mean, that’s life. You get offended sometimes. Don’t look to be offended in every corner. Especially not when looking at a movie like 300.
But I am afraid that you are right…and that a lot of people can’t tell the difference between being offended on purpose or something that happens to offend them, because they look at it in a certain way.
[quote=“Seth_Gecko”]
It’s kinda sad though that anyone would take 300 seriously. In that way it perfectly fits in this topic. Why make more out of 300 than it obviously is? It seems like you can’t make any movie which is a bit over the top without people getting a bit offended. I don’t know if that means that movies like 300 shouldn’t be made at all. I mean, that’s life. You get offended sometimes. Don’t look to be offended in every corner. Especially not when looking at a movie like 300.
But I am afraid that you are right…and that a lot of people can’t tell the difference between being offended on purpose or something that happens to offend them, because they look at it in a certain way.
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Personally I don’t find the movie offensive. I don’t find such stupid things offensive. It’s not worth it. What I’m trying to do is express that some people of Persian background find it offensive and have valid reasons. Thus “intellectualizing” the movie without being “assholes”. Because, it actually effects them on some level, whether it be simply self esteem or societal perceptions. Basically, some people have valid reasons to read into movies, and while you don’t have to agree, some respect should be shown to their individual grievances.
Yeah, I can see how that could be possible, but at the same time you can get offended by all movies. Just try hard enough to read into it and you will be offended.
So this means: have restrictions in the freedom a director or moviecompany has. Which I don’t think should be done. I think people should get some brains and educate themselves. 300 just happens to pack a lot of over the top nonsense. The bad guys happen to be persians but in their depiction are closer to martians than real life persians. Be it in the past or present. If you can’t see this, than I don’t really care if you are offended by it.
A director should be able to make a movie like 300 without being restrained because some people don’t get the intentions.
I believe in freedom above restraining. Even if it means that people might take offense. So be it.
I mean what’s next? Mexicans saying that they are offended because they aren’t really vampires, after seeing from dusk till dawn?
@ Kenneth
I’d just like to add without sounding like a jerk (I don’t mean this in any sort of rude way), but it does seem a bit silly to tear down people who are fanatical about reading into films, but be the polar opposite and be fanatical about never reading into them, and simply seeing them as a entertainment. Either way is a bit much. I understand it was a rant (trust me, I’m the Queen of rants) but why can’t everyone just accept that people enjoy things for different reasons that are natural to their personalities?
I understand what you are saying about these pretentious critics, but you seem to have forced yourself in the opposite wall in some sort of movie-lover self defense. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. I know it’s annoying to hear people go on about ridiculous ideas on movies to basically boost their film-geek self esteem, but it doesn’t mean that everyone reading into movies is doing this. I enjoy movies mostly to read into layers of emotion and subtle gestures. That captures my attention more then some straight up action sequence. It’s my NATURAL enjoyment of movies. My perception of what makes a good movie is not altered by what I think people expect me to enjoy. Isn’t that all we should do anyway? If you enjoy pure entertainment, thats great. But please don’t look down on people who honestly enjoy movies as art. There is a lot to be seen in movies, and some people enjoy looking into that. If you don’t, then you don’t. Hopefully all of the stupid pretentious kids straight out of art school can fall into a volcano or something.
[quote=“Seth_Gecko”]
Yeah, I can see how that could be possible, but at the same time you can get offended by all movies. Just try hard enough to read into it and you will be offended.
So this means: have restrictions in the freedom a director or moviecompany has. Which I don’t think should be done. I think people should get some brains and educate themselves. 300 just happens to pack a lot of over the top nonsense. The bad guys happen to be persians but in their depiction are closer to martians than real life persians. Be it in the past or present. If you can’t see this, than I don’t really care if you are offended by it.
A director should be able to make a movie like 300 without being restrained because some people don’t get the intentions.
I believe in freedom above restraining. Even if it means that people might take offense. So be it.
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No no no! You read me all wrong. Like I said about society and Nazi’s, you don’t have to control everything. But what you do need is a society where portions of the people speak out against things they see as legitimately offensive. It keeps society in check. The movie can still be made, but you need an alternative viewpoint voicing a cultural debate. Basically, it’s important to have the whiners because they keep society conscious that if these aspects of a movie are gradually accepted, they can lead to more dangerous feelings, such as obvious racism.
The whiners are those people nudging you on the shoulder so that things don’t get out of hand. It’s about cultural checks and balances, not government censorship. It’s their right to make the movie, and it’s the peoples right to voice complaint.
P.s. As a University student trapped in her room for weeks studying for exams (and writing overdue papers), this is one of the best conversations I’ve had in a while. Although, that fact makes me want to cry.
[quote=“plunderbunnie”]
No no no! You read me all wrong. Like I said about society and Nazi’s, you don’t have to control everything. But what you do need is a society where portions of the people speak out against things they see as legitimately offensive. It keeps society in check. The movie can still be made, but you need an alternative viewpoint voicing a cultural debate. Basically, it’s important to have the whiners because they keep society conscious that if these aspects of a movie are gradually accepted, they can lead to more dangerous feelings, such as obvious racism.
The whiners are those people nudging you on the shoulder so that things don’t get out of hand. It’s about cultural checks and balances, not government censorship. It’s their right to make the movie, and it’s the peoples right to voice complaint.
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Oh yeah! Absolutely! I am from The Netherlands and all we seem to hear is people getting offended by this and that. It never ends…people are afraid to speak in fear of getting shot by some retard who takes offense.
Of course there should always be an option of a debate about how something makes you feel.