What went wrong?

... as well as Full Tilt Boogie, the music and more. Let's kill some vampires!
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:46 am

KFMF pretty much summed up how I felt about From Dusk till Dawn.

You can like the end, it dosen't bother me, but to say the end is not different from the first part is ludacris. I just happan to think the sudden twist turned a movie that was running very realisticly and very smothly into this crap pile with random stupid action and cheezy one liners. You can think the end is a "Great Hommage" because it was infact, a hommage. But I hated how it became a hommage after being such a smoth great gangster flich then suddenly turning into this fucked up ball of blood and noise.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Scarface » Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:56 pm

Well my friends think the first part is quite boring and always wanna skip to the second segment from Salma's dance onwards. To each his own I guess. Me, I like it the way it is.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:27 am

All I'm getting at is that. It isn't hard to see where I'm coming from. I happan to like a story and good acting more then all-action and one liners. So I feal the reverce of what your friends do. But I can see where your friends are coming from. They just don't happan to like (A) a good story (B) realistic problems (C) any sort of reason for the action. But they can like whatever they want.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:04 am

if the whole movie delt with Vampires it would've been ok, but since there was a sudden change for no real fucking reason it was stupid.(please, someone explain why there is suddenly vampires.....its stupid...they arn't mention half the movie, then they're there. There is no reasonaable explanation for why they are there)

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:12 am

That's just the way I feal though. I just liked the way the movie was going and was pretty satisfied with everything. Then out of nowhere, the movie just changed. I think it should have been one or the other.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:15 am

exactly what I'm saying. One or the other. There was no explanation to WHY there was Vampires! They show up and all a sudden Salma Hayek turns into a vampire! What the fuck!? You can't do that sort of shit!

and yeah, I liked where the movie was going to, could've been a great on the road bank robbery movie or something (kinda like Natural Born Killers) but then  Vampires are brought into the mix, and I can't say this enough......WHY?!

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Scarface » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:21 am

 but then  Vampires are brought into the mix, and I can't say this enough......WHY?!

Because it was a vampire movie in the first place! Who cares about realistic problems Starkey, what kind of argument is that? This is the movie movie universe. Kill Bill didn't deal with realistic problems either. It's fine if you didn't like the second part; just do not say it is shit just because you didn't like it.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:22 am

Exactally hot I feal. The fact that they changed the story pisses me off. It's like there was no reason for the first 100 minutes. It just went totally off the story line. There you go KFMF...Bullz-Eye. Exact
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:24 am

Because it was a vampire movie in the first place! Who cares about realistic problems Starkey, what kind of argument is that? This is the movie movie universe. Kill Bill didn't deal with realistic problems either. It's fine if you didn't like the second part; just do not say it is shit just because you didn't like it.
But it WASN'T a Vampire movie in the first place! If it was a VAMPIRE movie they would have a reasonable explanation to WHY there was Vampires! That would also mean the WHOLE movie delt with Vampires, that would mean the first 45 minutes wouldn't be part of the movie.

The movie starts as a bank robbers on the run movie, then for no reason its VAmpires.

You can argue this all day, but in the end, there was no explanation to WHY there's vampires.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:35 am



Because it was a vampire movie in the first place! Who cares about realistic problems Starkey, what kind of argument is that? This is the movie movie universe. Kill Bill didn't deal with realistic problems either. It's fine if you didn't like the second part; just do not say it is shit just because you didn't like it.
It wasn't the most realistic gangster, that's for sure. But it was damn sure 100x more realistic then any sort of Cheezball Vampire Action. The movie was, and there's not argumnent to this fact, split into two totally different parts. One being a gangster thriller with great dialogue and great characters. Then out of nowhere, it turned into a Vampire Hack 'n' slash with no story what so ever. The entire first 100 minutes, which I thought was fantasticly directed and had just about the coolest story going for it, was pointless. Because the ending had nothing to do with it. Rodriguez must have said "So...QT. I want you to come up with a fantastic sory, and grab about the best actors you can find. I want them to have conflicts and progress for a little while untily a story unfolds. Then OUT OF NOWHERE. I want that entire first 100 minutes of film have no meaning. Because Action is way better then a story. OOH yeah, QT. Sorry but you have to die in the end because you pretty much symbolise all reason and chaos that envelops in a story and that has to go." What was he thinking, honestly. Imagine this. What if in "The Way of the Gun" abot 3/4ths of the way through it" Vampires just came out. That's how I felt about this movie. It had one of the best storys going for it that I can possibly think of, then Rodriguez threw it all away for vampires.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Scarface » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:52 am

It was QT who wanted the movie to be that way when he wrote the script; Rodriguez didn't have anything to do with it. The script is present on this site if you wanna take a look at it. However, I think Robert changed the ending from what was written on the script. If i recall correctly, the ending in the script recalled the authorities catching up with Clooney at the Titty Twister, and there's a final showdown between the two; which sort of wraps up the movie more nicely. I can see your point why you didn't like the second part though.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:56 am

It was QT who wanted the movie to be that way when he wrote the script; Rodriguez didn't have anything to do with it. The script is present on this site if you wanna take a look at it. However, I think Robert changed the ending from what was written on the script. If i recall correctly, the ending in the script recalled the authorities catching up with Clooney at the Titty Twister, and there's a final showdown between the two; which sort of wraps up the movie more nicely. I can see your point why you didn't like the second part though.
Hmmm...I think I would've liked that ending. Still, the movie would of been just as stupid with that ending. Cause still, no explanation of Vampires.

Wasn't the story made up by some fool who did the blood effects on Reservoir dogs? Anyone know how his story actually went? Or did he basically just tell QT an outline like, "Gangsters stumble into a bar run by Vampires" ?

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Scarface » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:15 am


Hmmm...I think I would've liked that ending. Still, the movie would of been just as stupid with that ending. Cause still, no explanation of Vampires.

Wasn't the story made up by some fool who did the blood effects on Reservoir dogs? Anyone know how his story actually went? Or did he basically just tell QT an outline like, "Gangsters stumble into a bar run by Vampires" ?
Yeah Robert Kurzman came up with the basic story; but I think the screenplay was all QT from beginning to end.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:17 am

You guys should watch the collectors edition of FDTD...
It's supposed to be a vampire movie...what QT wanted to do is give more character development and then hit you with the vamps...like in a horror novel...like steven king...first tell a normal story and then BAM!...horror element..QT thought that there where to much horror movies that hit you directly with the horror...

He wanted the movie to be like a normal story....and then hit you with the vamps...so you get the effect: WOW! where did that came from!...he also says that the movie could have done without the vamps...but its mos def a vamp movie in the first place...

I'm a huge fan of FDTD...so I like it just the way it is...totally cool...I also think that the movie could do without the vamps...but then it wouldnt be that special as it is now...IMO...
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:23 am

You guys should watch the collectors edition of FDTD...
It's supposed to be a vampire movie...what QT wanted to do is give more character development and then hit you with the vamps...like in a horror novel...like steven king...first tell a normal story and then BAM!...horror element..QT thought that there where to much horror movies that hit you directly with the horror...

He wanted the movie to be like a normal story....and then hit you with the vamps...so you get the effect: WOW! where did that came from!...he also says that the movie could have done without the vamps...but its mos def a vamp movie in the first place...

I'm a huge fan of FDTD...so I like it just the way it is...totally cool...I also think that the movie could do without the vamps...but then it wouldnt be that special as it is now...IMO...
Well stephen King sucks now....but beside that point....King would tend to have a REASON for why there's horror. He wouldn't jump into things without a reason for why is happening. There is absolutely NO reason why Vampires are in From Dusk Till Dawn.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:28 am

Fine, you can like what you want. But this is how I will forever feal about it. Nice (Realistic) Action packed begining. Smooth transition with our two main men into their daily kidnapping lives. QT rapes and killes their first hostage. Things start to take a steady fall backwords until they find the family in the RV. The cross the border. Fantastic dialogue and camerawork throughout. They make a stop at the bar to have the deal go down. Then out of nowhere. The entire first part had nothing to do with this. It was like there was no point in watching that fantastic movie unfold because in the end it all has nothing to do with the ending. The action became Evil Dead-esque but didn't make me laugh like Evil Dead did because evil dead was a fucking joke. Then just about everyone dies except for ol' Cloon and that Bitch that was in "The Other Sister".  
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:35 am

Yeah I hate King to...and you re right there wasnt any reason that there where vamps in FDTD...but thats the point of the movie...at least thats what QT and RR say...and they say that the movie would be good enough without them..but they made a vamp movie...so they had to be there...the reason that you dont see vamps directly is because QT wanted the WTF effect in the movie and didnt want to make another movie where the horror starts directly...and he mos def succeeded in this... ;D...very nice...

Starkey define realistic...cause QT's movies are all but realistic...it all takes place in the movie movie world...
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:41 am

Yeah I hate King to...and you re right there wasnt any reason that there where vamps in FDTD...but thats the point of the movie...at least thats what QT and RR say...and they say that the movie would be good enough without them..but they made a vamp movie...so they had to be there...the reason that you dont see vamps directly is because QT wanted the WTF effect in the movie and didnt want to make another movie where the horror starts directly...and he mos def succeeded in this... ;D...very nice...

Starkey define realistic...cause QT's movies are all but realistic...it all takes place in the movie movie world...
To me Tarantino's movie's are pretty realistic (not Kill Bill) because they ....just are. Like Pulp Fiction. Most Everything in that movie COULD happen (not adrenaline shot) but you know what I mean? They have a sence of realism most crime movies don't have. From Dusk Till DAwn was pretty realistic as it started. Nothing TOO FARFETCHED was happening (maybe the asshole clerk shooting while burning) but until the Vampires the movie becomes out of control in surreal shit like Vampires, and turning into Vampires, and ripping heads off and shit.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:45 am

yeah I know what you mean...but QT is on the edge with the realism...I agree it could happen, but its highly unlikely...it only happens in movies...for instance do jules and vincent really need the wolf to tell them what to do? probably not...But sure I understand what you re saying...its closer to the reality then kill bill and FDTD...and if you like that kind of style/movie more...thats cool...
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:49 am

yeah, those are the types of movies Tarantino is famous for. Crime movies. Thats why I'd prefer if he went back to making those instead of another crazy action movie INGLORIOUS BASTARDs (if his movie is anything like the original, it'll be action packed and farfetched)
HE should go abck and make more movies about gangsters and great dialogue and shit.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:54 am

Kill Bill was not 100% realistic because it was a Homage to the exploits...which are basicly genre inspired. Blaxploitation, spaghetti-Western, Kung Fu ext.. Kill Bill was 100% homage and would be stupid to as a realistic film.

Realistic is something that is possible within the realm of possibility. Spitting out One liners while Vampires are killing everyone around you is not realistic. Emotions, like the ones Clooney had at the begining of the movie, are realistic. Being able to kill 100's of vampires is not realistic, especially when the "Good Guys" only get killed when the story requires it. I.E. a character dieing because people have to feal sad about it. Not noticing the end sequence as un-realistic is sort of ridiculous. There was a clear division and you know it. I happan to think the story was flowing along fantasticly. That "WTF" fealing I got from the vampires wasn't good/cool. It was annoying.

All I want you to see is my Point of View on the subject. You can like the "WTF" fealing after such a great story, dosn't bother me. But I hated it.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:00 am

its cool that you dont bother me liking it...I dont care either if you dont like it...I'm just telling you why FDTD is like it is...
If PF could really happen...then FDTD and Kill Bill could happen to...just because its obvious that they re not realistic doesnt make the others any more realistic...try making a square in mid air or have a movie background in your cabride...see what I'm saying? its all in the movie movie world...but I understand it if you say that you prefer the ones that are obviously more realistic...but what I'm saying is that this doesnt make them realistic...
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:03 am

yeah, those are the types of movies Tarantino is famous for. Crime movies. Thats why I'd prefer if he went back to making those instead of another crazy action movie INGLORIOUS BASTARDs (if his movie is anything like the original, it'll be action packed and farfetched)
HE should go abck and make more movies about gangsters and great dialogue and shit.
Yeah me to...I'm a big fan of crime/mob movies and love the way QT makes them...so the more the better for me...I like it more...but still love kill bill and FDTD...maybe a contradiction but its true... ;D
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:57 am

You know what I mean when i say "Realistic". Have you seen "Behind Enemy Lines". Remember at the end of that where Owen Wilson runs through the clowd of bullets, while an entire army is shooting at him from a range of about 100 feet. And he dosen't get shot once. That's Unrealistic. Whan a story unfolds and everything in is has a distinct change of occuring, like the first part in FDTD, it's realistic. When those same people are fighting fampires with up beat enthusiasm and cheezy one liners, It's Unrealistic. There was a clear split between the two movies. I loved the direction the first part was heading into. Then, out of the random, the first part had nothing to do with the second. And that entire fancastic story was lost. It was like all of the character development was for nothing.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:01 pm

yeah, thats why I asked you to define realistic...because now I understand better why you find movies like PF realistic...
I still dont agree, because the dialogue of QT's movies isnt realistic...this isnt how people talk...you feel that its written...on one hand it feels realistic and on the other hand you know it can only happen in movies...But it all comes down to what your definition of realistic is...and where you put the line for yourself of what movie is being realistic and what movie is not...That's why I think that the whole movie (FDTD) is unrealistic and in your opinion the first part is realistic...thats cool...I just except that I'm watching a movie and enjoy it as it is...and supposed to be...I'm not going to say: WTF vampires well this isnt realistic....fuck this movie!

To me thats the same as going to the matrix and shouting: WTF? this couldnt happen in real life!

But if its a movie that is supposed to be realistic I will hate it when something stupid happens that mos def cant happen in real life...

But our different opinions stat with our different opinion on whats realistic...I dont think QT's movies are realistic...and you think some are...
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:09 pm

You know what...forget I ever mentioned "realistic"...fuck it.

The direction the first part was taking could have been an all time great. But it then turned into a cheezy action duel between bar members, clooney, and a family vs. Vampires. I'm not pissed at the movie or anything. It's just that I hated the second part. For being what it is, and you know ecactally what I mean.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Seth_Gecko » Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:17 pm

You know what...forget I ever mentioned "realistic"...fuck it.

The direction the first part was taking could have been an all time great. But it then turned into a cheezy action duel between bar members, clooney, and a family vs. Vampires. I'm not pissed at the movie or anything. It's just that I hated the second part. For being what it is, and you know ecactally what I mean.
jep, I know what you mean...damn even QT and RR laugh about the second part as not really needed...and say and laugh: maybe it was a better movie if the whole movie was like the first part!...but they also add: it was supposed to be a vampire movie in the first place so thats what we made...
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Starkey » Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:36 pm

I've decided to stop complaining. It's pointless for me to argue something that's of opinion. I fully understand why people can like this movie, but i'm sticking to what I say 100%.
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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Cherry_Licker » Fri Jan 02, 2004 11:15 pm

tarantino is God

Dude, Tarantino's dialogue is as realistic as it gets. In most movies characters do nothing but talk about whats gonna happen next. All they do is discuss plot and shit. IN Pulp they talk about real life shit. When I'm around my friends or just peopel in general all they do is talk about movies, sports, something they did once, their knowledge of something, ect. Thats real life. Thats what makes Pulp so much more realistic. The characters come to life and arnt' just tools to make the story move faster.

The SQUARE and FAKE BACKGROUNDS are not real, its a fucking movie. You can't even bring those into context in this discussion. Those have nothing to do whether its realistic or not. A long time ago all they did was use those fake background shots, does it make the movie anymore unrealistic? No. That has nothing to do with realism.

I can't describe the SQUARE part, I personally thought that was stupid and wasn't even a good square as it was a rectangle.

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Re: What went wrong?

Post by Titty_Twister » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:14 pm

I think it's because QT said he loves to do something different. He doesn't like movies where you can figure out the rest of the plot 5 minutes in. I loved every bit of FDTD because it did just that -- surprised us at the end with a horror film.
That is exactly hitting the mark. It's unrealistic but kinda realistic at the same time. It's like if you're walking to the supermarket with a whole list of items in your head and then you meet that long-lost relative you haven't seen for about 15 years with which you have a great chat with and you forget about the supermarket stuff. I really like the movie because with all the hostage and heist stuff they just accidentally happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, criminals or not! If you're not thinking too deep about what you're expecting from the film and want a wild and weird thrill ride you'll enjoy this one. I did!  ;D

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