Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Once Upon a Time... in Nazi-Occupied France. Quentin Tarantino's latest!
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi'

Post by savage_henry » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:49 pm

Zogs obviously over the top and slightly deranged in his postings, BUT... i have to admit, while i dont really doubt that this movie will be great (apart from having the Hitler character - im sorry but any representation of hitler is going to be shit and I think that particular clip in the trailer is why so many cynics are beating down on this movie), i think it WILL have a certain political impact.

For one thing, i can imagine IDF soldiers really getting off on it and i could bet a million quid that we'll be hearing stories (in the kind of media that reports such things) of groups of those dickheads calling themselves 'inglourious basterds' and killing palestinian kids in some horrific way. dont get me wrong, this isnt the whole right-wing tarantino films cause violence bullshit, im just saying theyll adopt the aesthetic coz theyre murdering bastards anyway. The other week the IDF was slammed after recruits had been trading these horrible pieces of shit: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

So you can imagine how pleased theyll be with IB. Also, the last slaughter in January is probably the first time Israel has been openly criticised by so many political leaders and the public. Israels always been seen as the 'victims', and I do think IB will go some way of affirming its supporters against palestine.

But dont get me wrong, i have no doubt that NONE OF THIS has anything to do with tarantino, or is part of his agenda in anyway - but neither do i doubt that these are inevitable consequences of the movie.

should he hold any responsibility should any of these things happen? well, probably not, he's just thinking about movies for the sake of movies. But lets face it, most directors would have considered these things...

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Pinkman » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:40 pm

You know, young men think war is cool because of Full Metal Jacket, or that Derek Vinyard in American History X is a hero. My point is, there are always morons to misunderstand movies. So what?

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by VikingWithNoName » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:16 am

Pinkman wrote: You know, young men think war is cool because of Full Metal Jacket.
That's interesting, it made me feel the other way.
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Seth_Gecko » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:42 pm

Lots of neonazi scum have american history X as their favourite movie. The irony is really stunningly funny.

Reading a QT movie like it has any reference to reality whatsoever is really fucking ridiculous. BUT of course he is dealing with a fragile matter. But it's a sad fact that most people can' t grasp art or movies, or anything for that matter, that doesn' t make a direct connection to reality. These people take the bible and myths literally and are generally very scary people.

I think something like Steven Spielberg's Schindler's List is far more risky since it kinda isn' t just fiction what he tried to achieve. Some parts want to represent ww II, whilst it is mostly used as an excuse to tell a hollywoodian story.

With QT it's safe to say that morals, politics, religion and representation aren' t part of the goal of any of his movies. It's just making movies for movies sake. For the sheer entertainment of it.
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by VikingWithNoName » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:03 pm

Seth_Gecko wrote: Lots of neonazi scum have american history X as their favourite movie. The irony is really stunningly funny.

Reading a QT movie like it has any reference to reality whatsoever is really fucking ridiculous. BUT of course he is dealing with a fragile matter. But it's a sad fact that most people can' t grasp art or movies, or anything for that matter, that doesn' t make a direct connection to reality. These people take the bible and myths literally and are generally very scary people.

I think something like Steven Spielberg's Schindler's List is far more risky since it kinda isn' t just fiction what he tried to achieve. Some parts want to represent ww II, whilst it is mostly used as an excuse to tell a hollywoodian story.

With QT it's safe to say that morals, politics, religion and representation aren' t part of the goal of any of his movies. It's just making movies for movies sake. For the sheer entertainment of it.
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by savage_henry » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:15 pm

Seth_Gecko wrote: With QT it's safe to say that morals, politics, religion and representation aren' t part of the goal of any of his movies. It's just making movies for movies sake. For the sheer entertainment of it.
That's kinda a bad thing, though. I mean thats what i was getting at when i said other directors would have considered the implications of such a flick. QT is definitely seeing IB as the opportunity to reassert himself after DP didnt have the impact it shouldve, but this really will be the dividing line in his career (assuming he has plans to make more movies). people ARE much much more political, interested in ethics and aspects of religion in today's climate, through things like the war in iraq, obama, G20 etc. having a film like this totally devoid of such things will probably see him slated by the critics in terms of his cultural status - you know theyre gonna say he has nothing to say, and in today's cultural climate i think people who do go to the movies for more than popcorn will start to tire of the postmodernist approach / film for films sake. though obviously, during recession people seem to be going to movies for its escapism value, and so it shouldnt have trouble in terms of box office if it gets proper marketing (that 'you havent seen war' line was crass and embarrasing - just like the european DP trailers had cheesy/typical hollywood music, who the fuck handles his trailers these days?!)

oh, and pinkman the difference is that zionists depend on the holocaust association to get away with current atrocities, thats why IB in particular is of concern to some people (like myself), its not just another war movie like any other, its particularly about jewish soldiers presented as dead-cool in the destroying of their enemies - neo-cons, zionists et al, put palestinians in the same category as nazis really, that they just wanted to exterminate the jewish race, when anyone with brains knows this isnt the reason for the conflict. but the way israel is presented in the mainstream media supports the view that theyre just 'defending' themselves - motives are never given, never explained, for the other side.
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Seth_Gecko » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:25 pm

That's kinda a bad thing, though. I mean thats what i was getting at when i said other directors would have considered the implications of such a flick. QT is definitely seeing IB as the opportunity to reassert himself after DP didnt have the impact it shouldve, but this really will be the dividing line in his career (assuming he has plans to make more movies). people ARE much much more political, interested in ethics and aspects of religion in today's climate, through things like the war in iraq, obama, G20 etc. having a film like this totally devoid of such things will probably see him slated by the critics in terms of his cultural status - you know theyre gonna say he has nothing to say, and in today's cultural climate i think people who do go to the movies for more than popcorn will start to tire of the postmodernist approach / film for films sake. though obviously, during recession people seem to be going to movies for its escapism value, and so it shouldnt have trouble in terms of box office if it gets proper marketing (that 'you havent seen war' line was crass and embarrasing - just like the european DP trailers had cheesy/typical hollywood music, who the fuck handles his trailers these days?!)
While the climate of the world today isn't all that peachy, anything QT will ever make will have fuck all to do with it. I myself aren't that interested in the majority of people and their half-assed opinion about something they can't grasp with their limited sense for things in life. But truth is: it's mostly the majority that will make or break a movie. Another funny fact is that although people could be tired of postmodern filmmaking or even movies that are made for just entertainment and movies own sake, there is no alternative. Everything in art and in movies has been done before. The big stories of genremaking are dead and over with. I think the only thing left is having genius film-makers who make good movies from their individual point of view and with their talent. The audiance can choose between mainstream safe shit that tell them what they already know and want to hear and see over and over again OR have fun with great individualists like our man Quentin.

And I do agree that the trailer is tending to speak to a broad audience in the way it is made. Which confuses a lot of people I think...
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by moura » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:56 pm

i think that quentin is very aware of any moral implications of his movies...but he seems to think that whatever moral issues we have, they must never interfere with art; the movie going experience is sacred to him; that is by itself a kind of statement (specially if u consider the metaforical implications of the final chapter in this movie...for those who read the screenplay, of course)

i also think that making art about art, is a perfectly legitimate aproach...and, social and psichological content is ALWAYS present in any work of art, even if the artist isnt interested in it; its a mere consequence of the fact that these works are made by human beings that live in societies

I actually think that people have largely forgotten the pure beauty of art; they can only apreciate art trough its content...the form, wich is its essence, is very underapreciated nowadays, speacialy by pseudointeletual critics...and thats probably the reason why most contemporary film makers doesnt know where to efectively put a camera or how to tell a well structured story;

thats why quentin is so improtant; he is calling our atention for the importance of the aesthetic experience once again

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Col. Crazy Kenneth » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:49 am

I very much agree with what you've written, moura.
moura wrote: (specially if u consider the metaforical implications of the final chapter in this movie...for those who read the screenplay, of course)
I would like very much to come back to you after I've seen IB. (Haven't read the screenplay and will not until after I've seen the movie) I hope you're still around then, I like your posts and a more intellectual approach to Quentin's work is much needed in these forums. Do you go to university too?
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Pinkman » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:32 pm

moura wrote: i also think that making art about art, is a perfectly legitimate aproach...and, social and psichological content is ALWAYS present in any work of art, even if the artist isnt interested in it; its a mere consequence of the fact that these works are made by human beings that live in societies

I actually think that people have largely forgotten the pure beauty of art; they can only apreciate art trough its content...the form, wich is its essence, is very underapreciated nowadays, speacialy by pseudointeletual critics...and thats probably the reason why most contemporary film makers doesnt know where to efectively put a camera or how to tell a well structured story;

thats why quentin is so improtant; he is calling our atention for the importance of the aesthetic experience once again
Exactly, that's what I keep responding to people when they ask "what's the point? there's no message". I don't understand why a movie should have a reason to exist, apart from being a movie. Art is a pure gratuitous act, it can and should be appreciated for what it is, the beauty of its expression. QT is one of the few directors working today who still cares about the form and the process to convey something special through it.

And you're right about IB, I think it's a great statement against movies being used for propaganda purpose, which interferes with the nature of art. The depiction of Goebbels is a clear indication, and well the end of course.

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Seth_Gecko » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:48 pm

I agree totally with Moura that moral issues are always present in a work, but especially with QT it is more a projection of those morals on the work. I don't think QT puts them in there consciously. If he does they are very shallow and subjective. Never for the sake of morality, but for the sheer effect of coolness or style.

In short morals are only present in his work in a second hand nature of projecting the morals onto his work. Which is in my point of view a pointless effort. Furthermore I don't think of QT as a really intellectual kind of guy. He certainly is no Oscar Wilde, J. K. Huysmans, Louis Couperus or *insert other great writer with attention to/ emphasize on style and aestheticism*.

Sadly people will disregard the movie for movies sake argument and complain about historical facts being wrong or immorality.
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by moura » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:47 pm

thanks keneth, i go to a psychology course...but ive always wanted to be a movie maker and have always tought a lot about these things, so thats why my opinions might seem intelectual...but they are just personal opinions

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Manuella » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:35 pm

moura wrote: thanks keneth, i go to a psychology course...but ive always wanted to be a movie maker and have always tought a lot about these things, so thats why my opinions might seem intelectual...but they are just personal opinions
Why not psychology and movie making?

it would be a really interesting combination.

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by moura » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:31 am

this is way off topic!!! lets go back to bashing ZOG MEDIA!! hehe just kidding

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by blue_lou_boyle » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:06 am

moura wrote: thats why quentin is so improtant; he is calling our atention for the importance of the aesthetic experience once again
funnily enough bringing forth the aesthetic nature of war is often cited as a fascist trait itself....

but i see what you're getting at, i really just see this movie in relation to other movies rather than being a real world critique.

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by moura » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:11 am

in what sense is this a fascist trait?

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by Col. Crazy Kenneth » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:29 am

blue_lou_boyle wrote: funnily enough bringing forth the aesthetic nature of war is often cited as a fascist trait itself....
don't they also say that the portrayal of aesthetic violence is fascist? some people...
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by blue_lou_boyle » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:08 am

Well how the nazis themselves turned their politics and subsequent war into a sort of aesthetic movement and used the culture industry including films like Leni Rifenstahls propaganda films to gain support.

and whats interesting is that with all the movie references, film within a film stuff thats going on with basterds is that QT kind addresses of this. He's got a jewish film-maker (Eli Roth) directing a faux-nazi propaganda film within his own movie.

on reflection though I think all countries aestheticise their wars so its not an inherently fascist trait. Even stuff like schindlers list aesthethicises war due to the fact that its a visual representation. im not against the movie AT ALL. Im just trying to point out the irony that it COULD be seen as somewhat of a fascist film......

I personally abhore censorship and can't wait to see the movie....just pointing that out
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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by moura » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:15 pm

im not sure if i understood your point...but my answer would be: its not about aesthethicising war...its about aesthethicising art hehe i mean, the mistake the fascist would be making in this case is mixing art with real life;

in short, im not in favor of war, on the contrary, i despise it, i think its a waste of our precious time in this world to be fighting over lands and oil, or whatever...but im in favor of making a war movie filled with action and gore just for the fun of it, as long as we maintain our capacity to distinguish between an entertaiment and real life; i think its very important for parents to explain this diference for their kids

so i think that would be the diference between my defense of the aesthethic experience, and the fascist one...

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurection of the Nazi's.

Post by blue_lou_boyle » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:15 pm

moura wrote: im not sure if i understood your point...but my answer would be: its not about aesthethicising war...its about aesthethicising art hehe i mean, the mistake the fascist would be making in this case is mixing art with real life;

in short, im not in favor of war, on the contrary, i despise it, i think its a waste of our precious time in this world to be fighting over lands and oil, or whatever...but im in favor of making a war movie filled with action and gore just for the fun of it, as long as we maintain our capacity to distinguish between an entertaiment and real life; i think its very important for parents to explain this diference for their kids

so i think that would be the diference between my defense of the aesthethic experience, and the fascist one...
I completely agree actually. I don't think I made myself clear so its my fault, I was just trying to weigh up both sides of the argument....im trying to show that a film which someone here has said is pro israeli propaganda or whatever could just as easily be seen as a fascist movie - i don't completely agree with either of these arguments, I brought up the fascism thing to basically undermine the whole jew conspiracy thing the other guy was going on about.

And in the case of QT - for me his movies are purely intertextual, so this film isnt even really a riff on real life, its a riff on the kellys heroes/dirty dozen style men on a mission movies that many people including myself still love. So Basically i agree with you, theres a huge difference between art and real life. Sometimes the best way to learn from history is not to take it so seriously so I really look forward to seeing this movie.

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurect

Post by ZOG MEDIA » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:58 am

Remember February 13.

Question: Will President Obama the 'Marcel' of neocon United States of America and the Zionist Occupied Territories burn the evidence oops I mean the catalyst that inflame fiery emotion or as I expect will the holocaust burn eternal to save the $.

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurect

Post by MagicEbersköld » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:09 am

I actually believe there is a political message in the movie. I find it pretty obvious watching the movie itself and all interviews done by Tarantino himself.

A german and a nazi is not the same thing. That is the message that comes through for me. Notice "I belive" and "for me". I´m not telling you it´s the truth or something like that... That´s for Tarantino to know!

This board is the best! ;)

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Re: Violent Zionist Occupation Goverment media and the ressurect

Post by Sebastian » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:45 pm

MagicEbersköld wrote: A german and a nazi is not the same thing. That is the message that comes through for me.
I don't believe there's an intentional message in the film. that's not tarantino.

and germans and nazis aren't the same thing

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